The Compton Cowboys: Healing Racial Trauma with Horses | Louis Hook & Kansas Carradine | EAW 58
Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson,
New York Times best selling
author of The Horse Boy, The Long
Ride Home, and The Healing Land.
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So without further ado,
let's meet today's guest.
Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.
I have Louis Hook here with
h- the Compton Cowboys.
He's one of the founding members
of the Compton Cowboys mission.
If you don't know what they are I've been
aware of them for some time, you need to.
So he's gonna tell us.
And I've also got the amazing
Kansas Carradine here, who comes
with her HeartMath background.
She's been working with the
Compton Cowboys for some years.
I'm delighted that she
can co-host this with me.
And she has, of course, much to share
with us on heart-based horsemanship,
the science behind heart co- coherence,
and all of the reasons why this is a
good thing in the equestrian world,
and particularly in our field of people
who are often poisoned with cortisol
and stress and how we can bring them
back to wellbeing and ourselves.
So, you know, I'm, I'm honored
that both of you are here.
Louis, do you wanna kick off
and just tell us who you are,
what the Compton Cowboys is-
Louis Hook: Mm-hmm
⦠Rupert Isaacson: and how you got there?
Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Yeah, just Compton Cowboys is led by
my son, Randy Savvy, who picked up the
mission about seven, eight years ago.
It started some 35 years ago with
my sister when she st- stumbled on a
equestrian neighborhood in Compton and
saw that she could live and own horses in
our budget space which was a big thing.
So she moved to Compton in 1988 to do that
with that was in the middle of Compton
being really the center of, of of gang
warfare and gangs gang life at the time.
And I remember telling her, "She
can't move to Compton 'cause
she can't raise her kids there.
She's lost her mind."
And she said "Well, you know,
I've gotta do what God tells me
to do, so I'm moving to Compton."
So four years later, when I'm moving to
Compton after watching her grow and found
this thing which was basically we were
taught by our mom that as part of growing
up poor, we grew up in housing projects.
My mom made sure that our, where we
lived was where all our friends w-
came to c- and that way we stayed safe
versus going out adventuring around.
So my sister Maisha Akbar had that model.
And so when she had her, she had
three kids, and they were bringing
their kids over, and all of a
sudden everybody wanted to ride.
And she said, "Look, okay, I've
gotta do this in a structured way
because I, I'm getting overwhelmed.
Also, hey, kids, if you wanna
ride, you gotta learn to shovel,
you know what, and do some work."
So that's how the Compton Junior Posse,
the original organization, got founded.
Me over four years of watching her,
participating kind of help, I grew
to see the neighborhood and the,
and the way it was working, that
it was, be a place for me as well.
And I, I couldn't do it until I
became a single parent of 18-month-old
twin boys, 'cause my f- first
wife at the time would not move to
Compton, and I wouldn't force her.
But once I became single, then off we
were going with my friends who are I
was you know, col- through college,
Occidental College, to MIT Economics
PhD program to Harvard Business School.
All my peers are telling me,
"You can't move to Compton.
Have you lost your mind?"
Okay.
And I came up with the same answer.
"Hey, I've gotta do
what God told me to do."
And so I moved to Compton and started
the mission of working with the youth
there leveraging horses to help them
grow and develop, and that was the start.
And so we did that for many years, some 30
years, till my sister was ready to retire.
And I said, "Yeah, I'm gonna retire, too."
So we were gonna close the program
down, and my son, who grew up in
it- Said can't let it close, Dad.
It's too important to me, the people
that we grew up with, that he grew up
with, his peers and all of their kids.
He said, "We can't do it."
So he, he decided to take it over with
the new concept, adding the Compton
Cowboys as a commercial activity
on top of the non-profit activity.
And spawned the Compton Cowboys
as, And that's how we kind of
got where, where we are today.
Rupert Isaacson: I've got several
questions immediately spring to mind.
All right?
They're like one, two, three, four.
So Okay.
Let me, let me fire them and then if we
get sidetracked, I think we do need to
come back because first question is, the
s- the, the, as you say, the perception
of Compton, even to you all, is a center
of the hood in West Coast USA, even
though of course there's many actually.
I've lived in California- Mm-hmm ⦠and
there's many, and we're not, you know,
it's Oakland and there's a b- bazillion.
But for whatever reason because
of the rap culture that came out
of it, everybody knows Compton.
So-
Why did Compton have an
equestrian culture as well?
How was that coexisting with hood culture?
And because that's a bit of a
mind stretch, w- so there must
be an interesting story there.
And then the second question is why
did Compton, out of all the available
violent hoods that you could choose
from, which are legion, there's many
of them, why did it become the one
that is the sort of household name?
So first, first why was there a,
an equestrian community there,
and B, why did it become so
celebrated as opposed to other ones?
Louis Hook: Yeah, so first off, one
of the things I've learned over the
years that there are poor people
in every major city fighting to
maintain their equestrian culture.
Okay.
All over the world.
All over the world.
Rupert Isaacson: Because
horses were in all cities.
Louis Hook: They were in all cities.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Louis Hook: And so in Compton and
around LA there are other little pockets
where poor people were struggling to
keep their horses and do that and-
Rupert Isaacson: Is it because
Compton had a particular stretch of
old pastures that people who used
to, say, run horse transportation
things used to keep theirâ¦
Like, what, what-
Louis Hook: Yeah, there, there was
a, a- Why was there an equestrian
Rupert Isaacson: culture there?
Louis Hook: A neighborhood that's called
Richland Farms, and it was deeded by,
I forget the gentleman's name, who
deeded the land to the City of Compton.
He deeded it that it has, had
to maintain to be farmland.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: Okay?
But that doesn't stop.
There's all, pockets all over the place
where people just squeezed in and said,
"Hey, I, I, I have horses," and they
kind of carved out spaces, slowly getting
squeezed out by urbanization, right?
Ours was forced.
It couldn't get squeezed out, but-
Yeah ⦠there's still today pockets
all over the place of this going on.
So, so again, I learned we weren't
unique that way because we've connected.
I went to Ghana in January, connected with
a woman who's got an equestrian program.
She's working with my s- myâ¦
We've been to England to see
little, a poor little corner
where people are trying to work to
keep their horses and ride them.
Bricks in the wall, yeah.
And they're riding in the streets.
Yeah.
They, you know, wherever they can do.
So this equestrian culture is everywhere.
For Black people, 'cause they were
poor, it's in these kind of what I call
the, the defined little pockets, right?
Rupert Isaacson: C- can I ask a sub
question then from that question?
Sure.
Which is where did this particular
Black equestrian culture come from?
Because having lived in the USA a
lot, I've lived in California and
I've lived in Texas, so I've seen
various Black equestrian cultures.
What is the particular one
that's indigenous to LA, and
why is it there historically?
This is just always really interesting
to get the background picture.
Louis Hook: Yeah, so that part I can'tâ¦
I have to tell you that I
haven't dissected very much-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay
⦠Louis Hook: where you can help me
understand these different tracks.
My general track is just that
Black people were so involved with
equestrian wherever they peeled out,
they try, they tried to maintain it.
Okay.
I don't understand the various
tracks as you're explaining
them of where they came from.
But, like, if I say even in LA, so there's
Compton, there's Altadena that were where
b- a few Buffalo Soldiers settled- Right
⦠which is on the other side of LA, and
they have their little equestrian space.
And we, we all learn, hey, we get
together, we can have, you know,
gymkhanas or things like that, that we
can do things and help each other out.
But there are different
tracks like that that I see.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Got it.
Got
Louis Hook: it.
And so ours was as we came to the
neighborhood and my sister kind of took
it over, she just led it down a path
which actually she was, when we first
got here, there was an equestrian model
of beat your horse into submission.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Louis Hook: And she through her own
education, teaching herself, stuff
like that, getting in touch with horse
whisperer more type stuff, kind of
converted y- almost our whole neighborhood
to, "Hey, that's not how we bring these
horses forward, especially if we are
gonna have them helping the kids to grow."
Okay?
So she's sort of the person who kind
of put all that piece together and grew
us into a kind of a unique space in the
Af- in the, in the LA area of, of of
horsemanship, of Black horsemanship.
Kansas Carradine: Louis, do you
mind speaking a little bit about
how Myesha was exposed to horses,
how her horsemanship was developed?
That she even felt like-
Yeah ⦠"Hey, I can go do this.
I can take horses in.
I can teach other kids about it."
Louis Hook: Hey so if you start
where we grew up in the housing
projects, it was, we were in aâ¦
Relative to what you kn- know
about housing projects, we were in
a unique kind of space because if
you went west and north, it was the
hood, gangs, drugs, the whole thing.
Rupert Isaacson: Are we talking
California here or another
Louis Hook: project?
Yeah, in California.
I grew up here in California, not
far from Compton, not in Compton.
Okay.
A place called Harbor City.
But
if you went south and
west, there was a swamp.
And some homeless people would
live on the swamp with their
raggedy trailer or whatever.
It might have one horse and
one pig and things like that.
So we kind of saw a lot.
And in Harbor City, because it's outside
of, it's on the edge of, of Los Angeles,
just had, again, more pockets ofâ¦
And it was generally poor people,
white and Black, who kind of tried to
have their animals and their horses.
So she got exposure to that.
She grew to just like
horses and want to ride.
So, but they, but in growing up, we
didn't have any horses we couldn't ride.
So she went to the local place where
you rent horses to ride, which was
Griffith Park here for everybody.
They had stables there.
Where the Hollywood
Rupert Isaacson: sign is.
Louis Hook: Yeah, no.
Yeah, the Hollywood sign is, is up there.
It's not quite in Griffith Park,
but you could see Griffith Park.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Louis Hook: So, so she would
ride horses, and her and her best
friend just grew to enjoy it.
So they would go ride horses.
And then she was a realtor.
She became a realtor, and she stumbled
on this Richland Farms neighborhood.
So that got her in there.
But I will tell you, all she
knew about horses at that time
was that she could ride them.
She didn't know anything.
And, but once she got going, she just
took off studying, you know, trying
to deal with this, especially once she
decided she wanted to help the kids.
She got to understand
them, all of that stuff.
So she self-taught everything.
And that's how it grew.
Rupert Isaacson: So is, are, within
Compton, are there many Comptons?
Meaning- No ⦠so are there, like, upper
class Compton, less upper, hood Compton,
violent Compton, peaceful Compton?
Is it a much more complicated
mosaic than it's presented as?
Louis Hook: Absolutely more complicated.
You know, Compton became a place for
middle class Blacks, and then it became
a, a gangster place as that whole
gangland world grows up because it's
an outlet for people to make money.
So these things start impacting it.
So Compton, in my neighborhood,
it's ebbed and flowed between
being, having gang members who were
fighting with other gang members to
mostly being peaceful and outside of
the full range of the full battle.
B- but the full battle had
to go to school near us.
Compton High was around the corner.
Mm.
So we would capture, our kids would
capture some of their kids and then-
Mm ⦠then we would, there, you know,
it, it, what I say is it wasn't always for
the faint of heart when a kid collapses
at your doorstep bleeding from a gunshot.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Louis Hook: And and then we've had the
blessing of our own direct family n- no
one being killed, but we had some shot.
And but in our family of the
Compton Cowboy youth, we have
several, several murders and deaths.
Rupert Isaacson: Why did- So- ⦠Compton,
why did Compton become the poster
child for West Coast hood and not
any of the other available West Coast
hoods that I'm keeping an open view?
Well, it's like this, Dave- But C-
Compton is the one that, like, l-
has the whole mythological thing.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
It's like you said, the the music
that really took it to a new height.
It's world renowned and infamous
Compton is because of the music.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: And so that
gets the name out there.
Mm.
So then M- Randall, Randy, my son,
he said, "I can leverage that- Mm
for the good to try to change the image
of Compton, of what we know about it,
but also to carry this broader message."
So that was the whole point of
leveraging that- visibility of Compton
to say it's broader than that, but
the people are broader than that.
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
Louis Hook: And that's
where, where he took off.
Rupert Isaacson: What was your job
through all of those early days?
Or what was your day job
while you were, you guys were
getting this project together?
Louis Hook: Yeah, I, I,
I always had a career.
You know, I came out of, I first
started I thought I wanted to be a
PhD in economics and go in the, go
the teaching and research route.
But I found myself at MIT, where
I said, "What am I doing in
the middle of all these nerds?"
So, I said, "Okay, I'm gonna get back to
my track," which was before I got there
I was kind of headed for business school.
So I went to business school.
I went to Harvard Business School.
And then I got my first job was as
a banker in Pittsburgh, and I, I've
always had a career related to that.
But my, most of my if, if, if I
say once my sister got started my
pastime and passion was with her
and that program, and where most
of my money went as I had a career.
And you know, I, I, I could live
pretty much anywhere in the city-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay
⦠Louis Hook: when I decided
to move to, to, to Compton.
And, I, I
Rupert Isaacson: can't think of many
bankers who went to MIT and Harvard
Business School who moved to Compton.
Right.
Yeah, I think you're the only
Louis Hook: one.
Right, right.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
And that, that captures my what
I call myself as a, my writing
moniker is educated hood rat.
Because I started in the
housing projects poor.
I rose through the heights of academia
and all that goes with that, and then
I went into the workspace where I
haven't been massively successful,
but I'm comfortable you know, in terms
of what I was able to accomplish.
But moving back to the hood as an
adult and working there, I find that my
perspective- Is always different than
most people having gone that full cycle
in my assessment of why, what, and how.
So, so that's where that comes from.
Rupert Isaacson: Were you and your
family resented for coming in as
affluent in an area like that?
Did that cause tensions or was
there actually much more solidarity?
Louis Hook: Well, there's
solidarity 'cause we grew up poor.
We, we, we identify.
So b- give you an example.
I never mentioned that I even
graduated from college unless
the opportunity presented itself.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: Okay?
That's what I learned is
you're an immediate outsider
if you come in that way.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Louis Hook: And so, I, I would say to
you that I got ⦠Everybody who grew
up through the program, even though
I wasn't working directly with it,
most of them call me Pops or Grandpa.
Yeah.
Okay?
'Cause that's what I did,
trying to influence them.
But without trying to come over the top
knowing that that's ⦠Having felt that
through all that academia of coming out
of, you know, a poor space and trying to
grow just an aside, it turns out most of
the women I dated, their mothers hated
me, that I dated in college and through
grad school because they didn't send their
daughters to college to, to connect with
a hood rat, even though I was in college.
Yeah.
So that, they, somehow I got
attracted to those women who were a
little bit royalty type, you know,
kind of- Were these Black women
Rupert Isaacson: or white women?
Or both?
Louis Hook: Black.
Black.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So was there a
feeling that if they married somebody
or went with somebody from the
hood, even as educated as you, it
would stall the upward mobility?
Louis Hook: Yeah, absolutely.
They- Yeah.
They, they, th- the women had,
at least those in their, their
group, is you connect with
⦠Excuse me.
You know, you're trying to lift
yourself out through your marriage to
someone who ⦠And, you know, there's,
there's Black royalty out there.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: People who've, who
have some wealth and they're,
and they're in those schools.
Rupert Isaacson: Yep.
Yep.
No, this is interesting because we, we
were just chatting before we hit record.
As, as you know, my family
is from Southern Africa.
Not all my family is white, and we have
all kinds of economic, what would you say?
Strata within our family, no matter
which area of the color thing we're in.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
And we've definitely observed,
I've definitely observed that
at work within my own family.
People having opposition to marrying
somebody because it's perceived as
stalling the upward mobility, and
frequently it's actually not the case.
But you know, it, it, I think it's good
for people to understand this because
it, it make, it shows the sort of human
complexity of these situations and
allows people to feel more compassion
because I think everybody can relate to
something like that in their own family.
Okay.
But so there you are.
You've, you've gone and gotten all this
education, and now you've gone back
to the hood, admittedly to a part of
the hood which you can keep horses in.
But as you say, Compton High is around
the corner, kids are getting shot.
You are there, and kids
are coming to your program.
So what is your program doing?
Did you start just thinking, "Well,
we're just gonna have kids ride"?
And then did it become, "Oh,
this is a social mission"?
And then what was the social mission?
Or was it a social
mission from the get-go?
Louis Hook: And
Rupert Isaacson: if so- No, it
was an evolution ⦠what was,
what was the mission statement?
Yeah.
Louis Hook: It, it was an evolution.
You know, so my sister, like I
started to say, was following my
mom's model of- My kids' friends
come here, they don't go there.
And so as the kids were kind of like
Pied Piper saying, "Hey, we got horses.
Come hang out with us."
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: And so as that grew,
my sister said "You know what?
I can't support this just the, the volume
of stuff going on unless I get organized
with it," and started requiringâ¦
M- started itâ¦
It, it grew into a mission
through that, of seeing these
kids, none of them have dads.
They're all adrift.
They're, Now as I, as older, I look at it
as not an official diagnosis, but I say
all these hood kids are dealing with PTSD.
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
Louis Hook: They're, they'reâ¦
A- a- and separate that out
from the PTSD intergenerational
from slavery and all that.
Right.
But just directly walking down
the street not knowing if you
were gonna survive the next day.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Louis Hook: That's
that's pretty stressful.
So over the years of we look at
helping those kids, we've also got
everybody coming at us for help with
horse therapy, things like that,
and we've tried different things.
But my sister and I always said, "This
is the core group that we wanna help.
There's nobody really focused on them.
There's not a lot of money
for them in this space."
Versus, you know, if you need-- if
you have a health pro- issue that's
psychological or whatever, or therapy,
there's a lot of money out there for
that, and there's nothing for these kids.
So that's how we kind of s-
maneuvered our way and she, with her
leadership, to that, into a program.
And what we have today, what she
grew, we call it a self-development
program that leverages horses.
To get the, the youth to grow, to be
upstanding young men and women, and
positive contributions to society.
That's what we do.
So our program has- Will you s- Go ahead.
Kansas Carradine: Will you speak
a little bit, Louis, also, because
when you talk about upstanding men
and women, about you know, how many
kids have you guys served, and the,
how, the gender demographics as well.
Because what it sounds like, and I
love this, is each equestrian center
ends up creating this sanctuary.
I certainly went to one of
those similarly as well.
Mm-hmm.
Where after school it was a
place, and it's family, and you
were drawn into really connecting
with these kids individually.
So can you just also give us a picture
of, you know, where they came from,
and about how many kids y- you've
served, and what you saw betweenâ¦
Obviously, the Compton Cowboys.
I came ag- from a group that was
called the Rio Rancho Cowboy Girls.
We were all girls.
Right.
And girls love horses.
Right.
But you have the Compton Cowboys, and
there's been a lot of, a lot of guys
and blokes that have gone through.
Yeah.
So can you speak a little
bit about that, too?
Louis Hook: Yeah.
So i- it, it's evolved in a
lot of different directions.
But in fact, you know, kind of when
we first started, it was kind of a
rodeo kind of a model for, on the
equestrian that had the young men being
the most needy of that help, and most
interested, 'cause it was a challenge
to deal with that big horse, right?
So that was kind of where we started.
Then as we grew my sister made
sure we expose women, and so
it was rodeo women to start.
Like, her own daughter was was a barrel
racer you know, starting from 10.
And and then she attracted
other women and or girls, and we
kind of had it going both ways.
As we kind of evolved and were looking
for the money to support the kids,
we found that the western support f-
financially was just very hard to come by.
That the racism in the, in the, in the
Western world, which I didn't even know
how much money there was i- in it but
we couldn't get access to it hardly.
So as my sister was evolving
We s- s- started moving towards
the English riding side.
And then as we did that, the, the
girls more took the leadership there.
The guys w- kind of fell off for a while.
And which is my son it was
kind of the last big main
group of kids coming through.
So at any point in time, there'd be
15 to 30 kids who are kind of in the
program and rolling with it along, and
then they, the ones that grow up and
grow out probably if we say we, the,
the count that we use is about 30 kids
a year for 35 years is, is the count.
You know?
Rupert Isaacson: Two questions.
Again, having lived in Texas where there's
a really, really strong Black cowboy
tradition, the cowboys of color, there's
a, there's big Black rodeos that happen
up in Fort Worth, really well-sponsored,
you know, sponsorship is there.
The money's there.
And I, I agree, racism is absolutely
there in the Western world, it's
there in the English world too,
but there is this very, very- Yeah
established thing.
Is that not there in California?
Could you not tap into that?
Louis Hook: S- explain yeah,
clarify your question for me.
What, what are we
Rupert Isaacson: looking for?
Well, the, the, the, the Black rodeo and
the cowboys of color sort of national
organizations that exist within the USA
I know have some sort of financial clout.
Of course probably more now
than they did back then.
But were these not groups that you
could reach out to for support?
Louis Hook: No.
One is the places where the Black people
still own ranches, big ranches, is where
what you're talking about grew out of.
Rupert Isaacson: Like Texas and, yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
What
Rupert Isaacson: I learned.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
In California there are no
Black people who owned ranches.
Okay.
So everybody was kind of just struggling
to have their little equestrian
world and, and be able to ride.
So that's the difference between that.
Then there's something in the Black
community that we deal with, at
least from my perspective, is that
everybody's doing their own thing.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: Okay?
And it's hard enough to do your own
thing versus trying to help each other.
So we're always outside of our groups.
And as a matter of fact, today despite
even the wealth that's in those
African rodeo- communities, they're
all struggling to separately do rodeos
and do different things, and each
going up against each other, right?
'Cause that's what we were
curated to do from my perspective.
And so, that whole alignment ofâ¦
Like right now my son's been in the
middle of the Bill Pickett Rodeo and
the 8 Second Rodeo, and they've been
saying, "Hey, look, if we all come
together we can do some pretty big rodeos
and get some pretty big resources."
And- Deaf ears so far.
There's some, a lot of, there's
talk but there's deaf ears so far.
But things to me, this is my own
academic side coming in, is that
integration really blew up the Black
communities across the country.
Because with segregation, the Black
communities grew up into very powerful
and wealthy places like Black Wall Street.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
Louis Hook: yeah.
Now, they attracted destruction
because they were so successful,
but during segregation, those
kinds of cities were everywhere.
And there's a whole history of why that
is true, which is from my study, is that
the the slaves were masterfully used by
the military to help build the country.
So most of the roads and towns,
infrastructure the s- the, the,
the military was the largest
leaser of slaves in the country
And they played a big part in that.
So when they got free, they went out and,
and went west, especially in the, in the,
what I, what I call the Indian territory,
which was the, became the Badlands,
'cause they could go do what they did.
And they, there were cities there
just blowing up crazy, and the
whites didn't quite appreciate
that, so they took them down.
So anyway-
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah
⦠Louis Hook: that slight history is rolls
forward into, hey, today with, when, with
integration came up, all the little, the
Black people working together, especially
the middle class, kind of moved forward
with the, "Man, we can be successful.
We're kind of, it's kind
of the post-racial world."
And they went to do their thing.
And so, it caused a lot of these people
not to work together the way we had.
And so we're, we're now coming full circle
with that with, you know, kind of the,
the need to, the attack on, on a on a,
on African Americans here at least, is
causing some re-thinking of all that.
So I'm, I apologize for
getting down that- No,
Rupert Isaacson: no.
It's, it's historic.
Yeah.
It helps us understand.
And these are the natural questions.
So I've got a second question
from that, which is obviously, so
Compton is famous for rich rappers.
You know?
It's famous for people who put Compton in
their lyrics or claim to have come from
Compton, so just off the top of my head,
you know, anyone can think of, of West
Coast rap, so they think of Ice Cube, they
think of, of Snoop Dogg, they think of you
know, the, the, the original rap movement
coming out there with Public Enemy.
They think about oh gosh, help me out.
There's, there's, there's, there's
more and there's more, you know?
Louis Hook: Oh, there's, there's- And-
⦠d- one of the popular ones there was, is,
Rupert Isaacson: Death Row
Records, and, you know, Su-
Louis Hook: The guy, can they, what, who
was the guy that did the Super Bowl thing
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: More recently
Rupert Isaacson: Lamar Exactly.
Louis Hook: Lamar.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
He's from Compton.
Kendrick Lamar.
All the, all these people.
They've got loads of money, and they, many
of them use Compton as their marketing.
Why are these people not, or are
they, backing Compton Cowboys, or do
they even know about Compton Cowboys?
And if not, why not?
Louis Hook: It's this
thing I'm talking about.
So we, Dr.
Dre actually produced one Ra-
one of Randall's re- records.
You know, he's a, he's a singer also.
And and gave us a few bucks,
10 grand here, 10 grand there,
but never picked them up.
But you
Rupert Isaacson: would expect
there to be some big philanthropist
coming out of the hood going-
Louis Hook: Yeah, so, so there is-
"I want to give
Rupert Isaacson: back.
I'm ready to give back."
Not?
Louis Hook: So- In the, I'd say in the
last five years we've seen it growing.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: So for example, Dr.
Dre helped build the new Compton High.
They just rebuilt it.
There's some other big programs going
on with some of the wealthy guys.
But the general issue in the Black
community is that the middle class
did their thing, and everybody
typically started their own nonprofit
because they needed a tax write-off,
and that's where they focused.
So like right now, we, we are big
with Beyoncé, and they've given us 25
grand two years in a row.
Rupert Isaacson: Even though
Beyoncé's from Texas, right?
Yeah,
Louis Hook: yeah.
Yeah.
So you saw the halftime show with
Kansas Carradine: Bey- Can
you give an idea of yourâ¦
Can you give an idea also
of your monthly overhead?
Yeah.
Like where does that 25K go?
In a drop in the bucket.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Our, our, our budget is about, our sort
of base budget is about 50 grand a month.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: But it ebbs down and
up- Right ⦠depending on how much
money we have, how many kids we
Kansas Carradine: can support.
But that's important for all
of the, the nonprofits who
are working on equine-assisted
services to still create that- Yeah
which is so needed in the community.
You're creating that sanctuary.
And I happened to be there when
Beyonce's BeyNice Foundation came,
you know, last year before we did
that event for the the halftime.
Louis Hook: Right.
So you know what, what we did with
her halftime show, that was Randy
curated the entire equestrian part.
I don't know if you saw it, Rupert.
No, I didn't.
Yeah.
So she did a, a NFL halftime
show, big production.
She and my son curate- it was around her
new Western work, and she had horses.
She walked out with a horse.
Randall curated the entire equestrian
side, and our cowboys were on
horseback in the show, okay?
So it wasâ¦
So we have a relationship
with Beyonce, Dr.
Dre, and all these people, but we can't
get them to write a check bec- well,
one is, I'll say Beyonce, she's, in her
nonprofit, they now have, are going out.
They didn't use to.
They're now going out looking
for other nonprofits to support.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Louis Hook: Because there's so
much of it, it's like they gotta
make their money go somewhere.
Although when you're a billionaire,
it seems to me like money
could be a little bit, Have
Rupert Isaacson: youâ¦
Yeah.
Sometimes it's a question
of directly asking.
Like, do you ring up Snoop
Dogg every month and say,
"Dude, come on, be reasonable."
Louis Hook: So that's- Or notâ¦
Yeah ⦠Rand- Randall,
he has done a lot of that.
That's his job because he's- Mm-hmm
the one that knows those people.
He's connected with them.
And it's resulted in some resources,
but not sufficient and stable.
Like- Yeah ⦠somebody could adopt us.
We know throughout our whole time,
it's like if you get a, the right
sponsor, they can carry the whole thing.
Absolutely.
Rupert Isaacson: If somebody could've
given you an endowment of a million
bucks and put that away to invest in,
that would've just done- Of course.
So- ⦠your monthly budget for 20 years.
Yeah, sure.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Yeah.
So one thing over time, we had
trouble getting the infrastructure
together for the big donors,
like the Annenberg Foundation.
Annenberg Foundation got, took
us on early, helped us get
our s- our planning together.
We even won rewards for planning based
on kinda what I was putting forth.
But when it came time to implement,
they said, "You guys have to do this
to get the big money," which is get our
metrics together and get all that, and
we never could quite get it all together.
And one part is I wasn't full-time
in it, and I used to fight with
my sister a little bit over
kind of what that meant, and-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
Louis Hook: it ended up me saying,
"All right, look, I'm gonna write
checks and be from a distance.
This is your thing.
You do it."
Mm.
So over the years we, we had trouble
getting to the big giant donors.
Right.
But in the middle, these, the African
American communities from the athletes to
the singers to the entertainers, always
we, we never could make that connection.
I mean, we know Oprah Winfrey has a
big ranch up in the mi- right north
of, of of the LA area, LA County.
She has aâ¦
We, we've reached out to her even
we can't make the connection.
Rupert Isaacson: I wonder if the
difficulty is that because you were
a family foundation effectively, and
a family project, and had the sort of
bootstrap idea, "Look, we can do this.
We'll do this ourselves," and of course
then you get caught in a vicious cycle
of, "I gotta keep doing it because
the bills are not gonna go away."
And I've been in this position, so Horse
Boy Foundation, which is my thing, was
entirely me for years and years and years,
and still to a large degree often is.
It was a long time before we attracted
philanthropy, and we actually didn'tâ¦
We never went out to get it because
we just simply didn't have time.
The moment we opened our doors
we were just overwhelmed.
And as you say, we also couldn't do the
stuff of, like, putting together those
fancy packages to go to big foundations
because there's just another kid and
another family coming through the door.
So what actually happened was a
certain amount of philanthropy
came our way because people just
found out about what we were doing.
And it wasn't usually, it
wasn't from within state.
We were in Texas.
It wasâ¦
But we were always
working internationally.
We were always working globally 'cause
we trained other people to do what we do.
And it sort of came that way.
But I wonder if now it's prophetic.
I want it to be prophetic, so
I'm reaching out to the universe.
I want to be impressed
by one of you rappers.
If you're gonna talk about Compton
and lay claim to it like this- Please
do something for this organization.
That's entirely reasonable.
They are-
Louis Hook: Yeah, I think, I think
that message is out there now
Yeah And my son is- We're putting
Rupert Isaacson: it out there ⦠is
Louis Hook: pushing it.
Yeah, I, I appreciate that, 'cause
if we believe it, it can happen.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Louis Hook: But-
Rupert Isaacson: And it shouldn't happen
because you have to make some fancy
package and take all this time that you
could be spent serving a family to g-
You know, it should just
be, "I'm from that hood.
I see what you're doing.
Here's a check."
Louis Hook: Yeah.
So, it hasn't happened and,
and- Mm ⦠and this is true not
just for the Compton Cowboys.
Every equestrian organization
Black is struggling.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: Okay?
They j- j- just are.
And you have the wealthy Blacks who have
ranches and horses and all kinds of stuff,
but w- we can't get the flow into these
programs that are helping these youth
ex- u- leverage that horse experience.
So-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay
⦠Louis Hook: it's it's in transition,
but I, I look at it as the curation
of Black people of not working with
each other and doing their own thing
is something that i- is a big issue
for us, and now we're starting to,
to, to deal with that, you know?
Yeah.
It's starting, it's starting to, to
take shape where I see an investment
fund started that we're gonna
invest in Black businesses, right?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Louis Hook: And the entrepreneurial
model of the world is just taking
shape in the Black community like
Rupert Isaacson: that.
Okay.
Louis Hook: Matter of fact, the
general- Well, I wanna- ⦠knowledge
in the Black community- ⦠about
financials is, "Go get a bank loan."
And I'm sitting there going,
"Banking isn't how you fundâ¦
Bank loan is not how you fund a business.
It's just not."
So anyway, yeah.
Kansas Carradine: I w- I'm, I would love
Louis also just in spite of all that,
in spite of the challenges, in spite
of the obstacles, still maintaining
this for over 30 years and over 1,000
different individuals who walk in there.
And again, I've seen it.
It is a sanctuary, and it's notâ¦
The horses are kind of
the, the honey in the pot.
That's just what draws
everybody to the farm.
Mm-hmm.
But what else is there, and
what else do you guys provide?
Yeah, I was gonna actually ask you- 'Cause
Rupert Isaacson: it's, it is a family.
There's so much more ⦠could,
could you outline what are the
structures that have evolved over
the years, like how you actually
work with the youth that comes in?
There's intake- Yeah, so- ⦠there's the
middle, then when they're coming through.
Yeah.
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Louis Hook: So something my
sister really honed in on was
the, the self-development part.
We're a development self-development
program for the kids.
So she's always done things
to kind of support that.
I've evolved it since I after my son
took it over and then I was retiring,
he said, "Come work with me, Dad,"
which, you know, has its own challenges
that we're wrestling with now.
But as I took it over, I, we
really formalized that structure.
So we have now what we
call f- four tracks.
We have the horsemanship track, which
is getting out there and w- and riding
the horses, getting taught that.
We have the equine science track, which
is studying the horses, the the books, the
learning about heart math and different
things like that, about the relationships.
Then we have a farming track, farming
and ranching track, where we have a
farm to table gardening activity, and
we expose the kids to nature that way
and growing which includes a, it's
farming and, and gardening is what it is.
So we have a petting zoo things
like that, so the kids get exposed
more generally to a farm, right?
A ranching thing.
And that, in that track, there's a
person who leads that that the, the
kids now get to the overall structure.
Then there's the self-development track
itself, where we put the kids through
you know, things about themselves,
learning about themselves, identify kids
that ha- need help that we can maybe
go help them get referred for help.
So those four tracks we do, and whatâ¦
the way we work it is when theâ¦
We're in summer camp right now,
which is 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM daily,
Mon- Monday through Thursday camp.
So the kids are broken up into
four groups, and they rotate
through each of these tracks.
So, that's how we make sure weâ¦
And we have a leader of each track.
When they're in the gardening track,
there, there's a gardening program.
We've connected to some org- some
gardening and organizations who've
given us a lesson plan and kind of
the, the stuff that we should be doing.
And that leader is the, is responsible
for owning that lesson plan and driving
the kids when they're in that session.
So if there's, what's that?
Six hours, 9 to 3.
So they get an hour and a half
each track With lunch breaks and
whatever, whatever in the middle.
So that's kind of how
we formalized it now.
And so all this is documented, written.
We test the kids on the in, on the,
when they come in and start to see where
they are and on, on all these tracks.
And then at the end of the
session, we test them to see
where they, how they grew.
And then we're now trying to ca-
we capture that, those metrics.
So that's how we moved to formalize
it from my sisters kind of putting
together this overall self-development
thing that leveraged the horses to
to, to do it in a more formal way.
Kansas Carradine: And you guys
have been doing equine therapy
before it was a buzzword.
You know, you've identified already that
a lot of these kids were coming in with
what would now be diagnosed as, like,
PTSD, and I think now we're also seeing
a lot of neurodivergent personalities.
And the just the animal husban-
husbandry aspect of it, that already
has such a, a, an impactful component.
And then what it sounds like is
you just have widened it out so
that it's not just the horsemanship
aspect, but it's all of the rhythm
of the activities that are around.
So even if you don't get a chance
to ride, you still have meaningful
engagement and meaningful interaction.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
A- and that's something my sister
Kansas Carradine: started early on.
And most of the r- and most
of the teachers have all
been through the program.
Let's just-
Louis Hook: Yeah.
So most of our-
⦠Kansas Carradine: speak to
Louis Hook: that as well ⦠teachers now
are kids who grew up in the program who
saw it benefit them, and they committed
to give back and, and they work for us.
And, you know, we payâ¦
I don't think, I don't think only one
of them has a full-time salary, but
we're, you know, we're, we're doing
the best we can to keep them together.
But my sister all along had
all these different tracks.
I'll give you an example.
She would have the kids say, "Hey,
we're gonna go out and you gotta learn
how to make your pitch to, re- when
we're at a rodeo, go through the stands
and make your pitch for what you want.
And so sh- we would have--
she'd give them lessons.
She'd teach them practice.
So when they went in, they could say,
"Hey, we're with Compton Junior Equest-
Compton Junior Posse at the time.
This is what we do.
You know, we're looking for
resources," da, da, da, da, da,
you know, that kind of thing.
She also had a thing where she w-
the kids would build sh- figure
out something to sell at the rodeo.
So one thing we did, she would get
old photos, equestrian photos, and we
would f- frame them and then go up and
sell them at the at the, at the rodeo.
So she was always doing something saying,
"This has to be more than just horses."
So now we've formalized it so
that that is kind of how we roll.
And from the beginning,
though, she did always say-
There's something about a horse.
This is before, again,
she's learning, right?
So we don't know anything about horses,
but she's learn- she says these ki-
these young men come in very aggressive.
In the hood, this is a thing.
You do not res- disrespect me.
That's how you survive.
So you're very aggressive,
and anything that looks like a
slight, you're gonna lash out at.
I even still have some of that.
So, she said these kids who come in
aggressive and they le- learn fairly
quickly that that's not gonna work
with the horse, and they have to
learn if they really wanna deal with
the horse, they better they better
take a different approach, okay?
And so she says they learn that aggression
to put it in check when they, as they're
dealing with these horses and learning.
Now, now that we know more about the
horses and their, their aura and their
heart space and how they communicate,
and we're learning more a- about
that as the world is I say, you know,
horses aren't for everybody, but if
they're for you, you can't disconnect.
It- it's just a natural, and it's because
of that communication that the horses
do with the kids that we're now learning
is even beyond just the kids' you
know, li- wanting to be with the horse.
It's a, there's a connection that builds
and is healthy all the way around.
So it's been a pretty powerful growth
path for us to see that and get exposed
to heart math and those things, where
we got now Mark is, is going through
your program trying to learn that
and, and we'll be introducing those
things more and more as we, as we get-
Rupert Isaacson: Kansas, could you
tell us a bit more about HeartMath?
I know we've had you talk about this on
the show before, but not everyone hits
every episode, and so don't worry that
you're gonna be repeating yourself at all.
It's, it's,
Kansas Carradine: it's-
⦠Rupert Isaacson: necessary information.
And then could you guys talk a
little bit- Sure ⦠about how it's
been implemented there in Compton?
Kansas Carradine: Mm.
Sure, yeah.
So when we speak about HeartMath, I
would say it's actually two things.
It's an entity that is a research
organization that's been studying
basically the electromagnetic field
of the heart and its impact on our
physiology, how our emotions basically
affect your body, which is well known
now, but they basically pioneered a lot
of biofeedback technology to prove that
through measuring something called HRV,
which a lot of people talk right now
as a marker for health and vitality.
Which means?
But that heart rate variability.
Heart rate variability.
The heart rate variability is
actually the beat-to-beat changes.
So most people think that, you know,
your heart rate is just kind ofâ¦
I s- I thought, very erroneously, that
it was just steady, like a metronome.
But actually, your heart rate
will increase and decrease, and
what we're picking up as your
heart rate is an average in a
given allotted amount of time.
And so the pace at which, the even
tempo, like I say, a conductor in
an orchestra can get the entire 72
musicians to all increase their tempo
in a coherent way, and then slow down
and create a legato or slower movement,
slower tempo, all in a coherent way,
because the conductor is maintaining that
speeding up and slowing down process.
Our heart is doing the same thing,
and with some simple breath practices,
as well as connecting to things like
gratitude or those feelings of renewal,
those renewing feelings bring us
into the heart and impact our heart
rate variability so that we have an
inner synchronization that occurs.
And most people who are in the
space of horses will naturally find
themselves in awe or gratitude, or
they'll even say that they, when
the, in the presence of a regulated
horse, feel a sense of peace or ease.
And certainly when you're creating a
sanctuary and a lot of people are around,
like the students and the mentors and the
instructors who have all been through the
program that the Compton Cowboys or the
Compton Junior Equestrians, the Compton
Junior Posse, whatever name it is, kids
and horses, there's a lot of- Mm-hmm
um, authentic feelings of happiness,
and that creates a regulated experience.
So if you're coming out of a chaotic
environment and you step into this field
where there's more ease, there's more
peace, there's more gratitude taking
place, there's more sincerity taking
place, that's actually a felt resonance.
Our animal body can sense that, and
you wanna keep coming back to it.
It's magnetic.
And so the Institute of HeartMath
has researched all of this tech
so that we can give grounding,
'cause evidence-based research has
a lot of value in today's world.
And then there's specific
techniques that we can apply.
And Mark Carlos, who Lewis just
referenced, is also a, a student, a
graduate you could say, of the Compton
Cowboys program, and he's not only
studying to be a licensed social worker,
but also is a HeartMath certified trainer.
And so he's sharing these
emotional self-regulation tools
and techniques with the kids.
And what I notice is when we teach the
humans HeartMath specifically, that
we become more intentional about the
space that we are with the horses.
So any time the student might be
feeling a little bit nervous or feeling
some anxiety, you know, horses are
intimidating, some of those practice
right away can help bring into a
more centered, grounded experience.
And then the horses
are lap up biofeedback.
So we'll notice them, you know, drop
their head, their highs might soften.
They might have a lick and
chew with their mouths.
All of those are big visual cues that
create that instantaneous feedback of,
oh, wow, when I'm slowing my breath
down, when I'm connecting in my heart
space, I'm noticing that that has an
impact on the horses as well, and that
is such a strong educational tool really.
And it, it's having that facilitation,
which you know, Lewis and Randy and
everybody who's there is realizing,
like, this is just something that we
can add on in teaching those life skills
and teaching that self-development.
Because whether or not every,
every s- person who walks through
the door is gonna be a horseman,
they're gonna use those life skills
in whatever domain and whatever
industry they end up embar- Mm-hmm
their journey, wherever they embark upon.
Louis Hook: Yeah, I, I wanna add
one thing here that Rupert, you
as you refer to kinda knowing
your ancestry extensively, okay?
And with the science that that is,
is out here growing daily, including
the HeartMath and the, and the, the
horse's connection to the people
we also have learned that our DNA
has 14 generations of memory in it.
Kansas Carradine: Mm.
Louis Hook: And with that knowledge
of your ancestry, f- there's a certain
kind of flow, I believe, that goes
with continuity of kind of who you are.
And with slaves having been erased
and broke- broken, we, the, the w-
the families who happen to stay in
horsemanship, it's kind of a natural
flow for ours, where it was broken.
We stumbled on it, and I believe
that in our ancestry we were
equestrians, and that's why it's
connected so hard with with my family.
And that, just to mention that that
disconnect creates a, a different
kind of develop- across the board.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
I think this is something which might
come as a surprise to some listeners,
because equestrian culture is pr-
currently predominantly perceived
as either white or Asian, because
you go across Northern Asia as well-
Louis Hook: Mm-hmm
Rupert Isaacson: or sort of South
American, that sort of th- th- these are
the places where it's most dominant today.
But it's not really well known
that actually there's big horse
cultures in Africa, and have
been for thousands of years.
So, it's not well known, for example,
that there were large African horse
cultures in the Sahel areas, and
the Sahel goes from west- Yeah
to east, about- ⦠three and
a half thousand miles from
Senegal- Yeah ⦠to Ethiopia.
Louis Hook: Yeah,
Rupert Isaacson: and I, I learned-
And my, my own ancestors encountered
and fought these equestrian warriors.
Yeah.
Louis Hook: What's interesting is that
I love to hear that, as I s- am learning
my, my own ancestry, that we come from
the West African region of the Sahel.
And then I go and I, I'll tell you
how I, my, my, my discovery of my
research into this started when I, I
saw a movie called The, The Woman King.
And I'm watching the movie
and two things popped out.
First one got me paying attention, which
was the, the woman king, who wasâ¦
I thought I was gonna go watch
some African warrior, female
warriors kick ass, right?
Mm-hmm.
And her, her main battle was
against trying to stop Africans from
selling themselves into slavery.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: That was her main battle.
Rupert Isaacson: Where
Louis Hook: was she, where
Rupert Isaacson: was she, by the way?
Where was this set?
Louis Hook: She's Dahomey.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, which is
current Nigeria, Sierra Leone- Yeah.
Louis Hook: Right
⦠Rupert Isaacson: Gold Coast, Ivory Coast.
Louis Hook: Gold- Ivory Coast.
There, yeah.
Gold Coast.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: So, so that wa- so that
got me, like, and knowing that that's
a sensitive subject, I'm listening.
And then her main enemy that she
had to convert, which was the
tribe that was working with the
Westerners to get slaves, right?
And taking their own, own other
tribes people into slavery
and selling them to the West.
It was an equestrian cavalry based tribe.
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
Louis Hook: I never, in 30 years of
being in this equestrian world, I
never saw any African cavalry warriors.
I just, when I, when I, once
I started looking into it, I
see other people knew of it.
I didn't.
So I asked-
Rupert Isaacson: Except of
course, Buffalo Soldiers in, in
the USA, which is well known.
Yeah.
Louis Hook: Right.
But before the Buf- I'm talking now
back- Yeah ⦠in in Mali, 1300s.
Rupert Isaacson: Yep.
Louis Hook: Okay?
So, I see these tribes on cavalry,
and I, I basically in my mind,
I said, "That's not even true."
So it caused me to go research.
So then I find out as I'm researching
that the reason, one of the reasons
Mansa Musa became the richest man
in the history of the world, only
recently surpassed by Musk- Was because
of, partly because of his cavalries.
Because he controlled the trade routes
to protect his gold when he was supplying
50% of the gold in the world, and
he, his trade routes were corrected,
were, were protected by his cavalries.
Including, you're probably familiar with
the pilgrimage he did to Mecca from Mali,
3,000 miles where he was giving away so
much gold he was destroying economies
on the way to Mecca and then back.
They couldn't, they, they,
no one could take his gold.
No one could get it because his
cavalries were so powerful and strong
that they were able to protect- Some
Rupert Isaacson: of the listeners
may have missed the name.
Tell us the name of this man.
Louis Hook: Mansa Musa.
He was the King of Mali
in the early 1300s.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: He, for me, as I'm
reading it, he's probably one of
the top five most important people
in the history of the world.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Louis Hook: But like you said, you
don't know who he is, but he's, once
you start studying, you'll find in
mainstream and in African Afrocentric
studies, he's labeled as the richest
man in the history of the world.
On the mainstream side- Yeah ⦠it's
because he happened to be sitting
on a bunch of gold- Mm ⦠and
he was, and he made that money.
So in fact, on most of the maps of the
colonizers heading to go to to Africa,
they have a image of Mansa Musa holding up
a gigantic gold nugget on the map, okay?
So he's known, okay?
But what they don't tell you is
that he's the reason Timbuktu became
a, probably the second or third
center of education in the world.
Yeah.
Everybody was going there to study.
Mm.
It's 'cause of him.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
particularly for Islamic studies.
Mo- Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Mo- most n- most of hisâ¦
The reason he was so successful in gold
is he figured out how to mine it, pr-
package it, ship it and protect it.
That was an indus- industrial approach.
Well, it turns out he industrialized
at that kind of a level,
cotton, rice, everything he did.
So a lot of the slaves that were,
were first gone after wereâ¦
That knowledge was what they were
after, of how did he do this?
And a lot of what we, to me, and again,
I could be wrong, I'm researching it.
And a lot of what became the US was
out of what he had done in, in Mali
and what, you know, ca- became the
Son- Po- Son- Songhai Empire, you
know, kinda as it, as it evolved since.
Songhai.
That, those empires and where
a lot of they, they, theyâ¦
A lot of what we became in the US,
especially the equestrians, 'cause if you
figure At that time, horses were to the
world what cars and trucks became, right?
So if you didn't have a
strong cavalry in the end, you
couldn't have a strong military.
So a lot of that cavalry that came out of,
that grew out of the Berbers and, and and
and the Moors and it s- filtered its way
through into the Sahel region and Mali.
A lot of those, that, those
equestrians, you don't even know they
had horses in, in the history books.
We don't even know that.
Rupert Isaacson: What's interesting,
too, is they're still there.
They're actually still there, and they're
still riding, and they're still doing it.
Louis Hook: Right
⦠Rupert Isaacson: but it, and like
Senegal has even a, quite an evolved
racing industry that's homegrown
as well as their own, you know, old
equestrian traditions and so on.
But if you think about it from
a historical point of view, it
makes complete sense because
those, those gold and slave routes
didn't come out of a vacuum.
There were civilizations before
civilizations before civilizations.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
So, but certainly the Romans profited
from a slave route and a gold route
that was exploited by the Carthaginians-
Exactly ⦠and the Romans and the Car-
who were in North Africa, and the Ro-
had, had actually come from what's now
Lebanon, and had migrated across to the
western Mediterranean, founded the, their
thing in Morocco and Tunisia and so on,
and harnessed the Berber cavalry, as you
say, from those mountains of Morocco.
Very strong equestrian tradition
there with Barb horses.
And then, of course, the Romans show
up and have a showdown with Hannibal.
We know about Hannibal
elephants coming over the-
Louis Hook: Yeah, right
⦠Rupert Isaacson: but this is, like,
200 years before Christ, right?
They have a big old showdown.
Who's gonna control the
western Mediterranean?
Of course, the Romans win, and so
they then control that trade route.
But before that, of course,
who were the Carthaginians
nicking that trade route from?
They nicked it from the Egyptians.
That's right.
Because the Egyptians were the
only were the only big slave-owning
empire African that survived what's
called the Bronze Age collapse.
So that we, we know about,
say, Rome and Greece.
Those are Iron Age pre-medieval
ancient world, large slave-owning,
big corporate things.
But before them, in the Bronze Age, there
were a whole group of others, and mostly
up in what's called Mesopotamia now.
But also Myc- Mycenae and Greece, to
some degree Carthage, the Phoenicians.
But Egypt kind of- survived.
There was a collapse, and
there are various reasons
for that, but it collapsed.
I mean- And only, only Egypt prevailed.
So those routes that you were talking
about there in Mali, and those horses, and
those horsemen, and the slaves, and the
gold, and all of that had been going on
for thousands of years- Thousands of years
before any Europeans showed up-
Louis Hook: I mean, I mean- ⦠and
went, "Oh, gosh, let's exploit
Rupert Isaacson: this."
Yeah
⦠Louis Hook: the Romans, so but, but the,
like the way the Romans took over, there
were major emperors who were African.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Louis Hook: Okay?
So there was a different,
again, it wasn't a race model.
That, when you hear about Cleopatra
and Caesar marrying, that, that,
that, that wasn't a racial model.
You see what I'm saying?
That's myâ¦
So all the things were all going on.
Absolutely.
It was an interracial kind of world.
Basically, whoever had the
biggest you-know-what kicked
ass, and killed everybody else,
and enslaved them, whatever.
So, so anyway, all of that history is
there, and to me it was culminating
in that what produ- what made
Mansa Musa the richest man in the
world at the time, that for- that
caused them to be the focus- Mm-hmm
as the Europeans rose up between two
things, m- weaponizing gunpowder, okay?
Causing them to take the lead.
And then between weaponizing gunpowder and
their immunity from diseases from being
in the Dark Ages, those things have- Well,
Rupert Isaacson: and, and finding,
discovering, the Portuguese discovering
the way to round to the Cap- Cape
of Good Hope, that y- before that,
people couldn't sail north to south
in Africa because where that big bulge
sticks out to the west, it creates
something called the doldrums, where
the wind dies, and ships- Mm-hmm
get becalmed.
So for a long, long time you couldn't
get your ships further down, and then
the Portuguese in the f- mid late
Middle Ages realized, oh, if you went
really far west, you could, of course,
dodge that, and of course, that led
them to discover the New World as well.
So i- it was, it was
those three things, yeah.
So
Louis Hook: that what,
that what you just said?
Rupert Isaacson: Say that again?
Louis Hook: Well, I'd love to, in a
separate conversation, to take that
on, because some of the findings
now are saying that, like Mansa
Musa's brother, or took 200 ships
To, and went to the
Americas in the early 1300s.
So- I
Rupert Isaacson: don't have any
doubt believing that, actually.
No,
Louis Hook: yeah, it's true
⦠Rupert Isaacson: I think that there were
definitely other people, the Chinese too.
I mean, there were lots of
other people who were out there-
Louis Hook: Right
⦠discovering and trading.
But the point is, is that-
Rupert Isaacson: Yes
⦠Louis Hook: that maritime ex- activity-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Louis Hook: there's no way I believe
that based on what I'm seeing, but
I could be wrong, that the Portugal
discovered that route, okay?
Rupert Isaacson: Well, let's say-
According to me ⦠let's say if the
Portuguese discovered it, they probably
were getting some local knowledge.
But there was, but there was hundreds
of years where it, it lay dormant,
and the, certainly the Romans didn't
have it or they would've used it.
But for whatever reason, the Portuguese
managed to kind of put a patent on it and
exploit it, and then of course that opened
the gateway for the rest of Europe to try.
But I don't have any trouble believing
that West Africans, why wouldn't they?
'Cause they're seafaring nations.
Why wouldn't they have gone
and explored to the West?
I mean, y- y- you just-
Louis Hook: Right.
And,
Rupert Isaacson: and- You know, just
fisherman getting blown off course.
Y- you know, it sh- it must have happened.
Yeah, it's absolutely-
Louis Hook: Yeah.
The only thing I would add is
the Portuguese, if you, what
I say, call, follow the money-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm
⦠Louis Hook: and the power line.
When they monetized gunpowder and
put it on ships, it created a whole
different maritime world, okay?
That may have been influenced of where
they were able to, to- Mm ⦠bring it
back to life from its dormancy of that.
But anyway, let's set that aside.
Yeah, but the- We'll get back
to what we're talking about.
Sorry.
Rupert Isaacson: Well,
but I think it's relevant.
The reason why I think it's relevant is
the perception of, within the question
world particularly, a- hood-based
Black equestrian endeavor, Compton
Cowboys, would be non-educated people.
And what I think the conversation is
showing is that may or may not be true.
That in fact, here's this bloke that
we're talking to right now who's gone
to MIT, he's gone to Harvard, decided
to go back to the hood and start this.
And then of course, you're serving
kids, some of whom would've come
from very uneducated backgrounds,
and some of whom would've come
from very educated backgrounds.
And interestingly, when I was working
in rural Texas, predominantly of
course with White and Hispanic
families, but some African American
families too, it was exactly the same.
We had some very uneducated families,
and we had some very educated families.
Because for us particularly you
know, working with autism so
much, you know, that goes across
all economic, you know, barriers.
It's just autism's gonna hit you no matter
whether you've got money or not money, no
matter whether you went to college or not.
But I think that it is im- important
that you bring all this history up
Lewis, because it does to s- a, a
large degree shatter the mythology
that if you're looking at something
coming out of urban Black America,
it must therefore automatically mean
lack of education lack of access to
information "Oh, look at them down there."
And so I think it's actually important
that you bring this up, because
a lot of us would have taken in
those mythologies almost passively,
Louis Hook: because that's- Passively.
That's what my point of view ⦠just
what the media presents,
Rupert Isaacson: right?
Louis Hook: So it, yeah, it just
consistent with across media, across
what you're learning in school.
All of those things are all
consistently saying, "Eh, you know,
this is kind of the way it is."
There are some exceptions,
but this is kind of-
Rupert Isaacson: And to be honest, I
mean, that's what Black culture does too,
because, you know, ev- any rap song that
comes out of Compton doesn't talk about
the, the maths professor that lived up
the road who taught me about physics.
They talk about, you know, killing people
and doing horrible things to each other,
and making money by doing horrible things
to each other, because that sounds sexy.
So no one who was going to come along
and make a rap song about meeting you
was gonna get a record deal from Suge
Knight, because it wasn't gangster enough.
So-
Louis Hook: Right.
But Suge, Suge Knight didn't get a
gangster, didn't get a deal until he
brought gangsterism to the people who
financed it, which were the white people.
Rupert Isaacson: There
Louis Hook: you go.
That what would they,
what would they pay for?
So it's all curated at some level-
Rupert Isaacson: Got it.
Right
⦠Louis Hook: all the way
from the top to the bottom.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Louis Hook: That it's you know, so - It's
so true ⦠so, so what I see today as
I'm out here dealing with these kids-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Louis Hook: who again, they
have no idea who they are.
They are just dealing out here on
a day-to-day, and when I deal with
my middle class friends, they say,
"Yeah, you know, I went over there
and tried to help some of them.
They didn't understand it,
so I pulled out, you know?"
And Like I say, the, the psychological
subconscious impacts that we ha-
are enduring are working on all
sides, reinforcing what we see.
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, do you teach a
course in, or do you teach to the kids
that come through Black American, as,
or, or actually, African equine history?
And,
Louis Hook: and the- I'm starting with
my first book, 'cause I didn't know it.
I didn't know it before five years ago.
Because you,
Rupert Isaacson: you, you've
gotta teach this stuff.
Louis Hook: Yes.
So my mission right now is, again,
'cause I, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a academic
thinker, and if you don't know this
I didn't get the PhD in economics.
I left be- I took all the
coursework, but I didn't take it.
But the high-end economics economists,
the high-end economists, they look at
themselves as modern-day philosophers
because they integrate physical
hard sciences with social sciences
to try to understand the world.
And so I kinda come out of that
space where I'm thinking of
myself as a philosopher of, of,
of the universe, so to speak.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Louis Hook: And in that space,
I've concluded that it's education
that's the foundation that's broken.
And what are some of the models?
And I believe that the fundamental
model for education was the churches And
there's nothing to stop the churches,
as I teach it to my local kids whenever,
that's just a, what I call we're,
we're, we're in a war and w- I win
some battles, but we're losing the war.
So what's broader gonna happen is
what stops the church from just
teaching accurate history of religion
and the role of Black people?
What, what, what, what, whatâ¦
You know, that'sâ¦
So I am- I've seen it in churches
now where a guy is saying he follows
the scripture that proves that this
whole thing that Black people are are
descendants of Ham who got cursed, where
Ham wasn't even the guy that got cursed.
Okay?
Not even in, in the Bible.
If you just follow it.
So he- I've seen that sermon going,
"That's what needs to be taught," but-
Rupert Isaacson: Totally.
I, I mean, that, that-
Louis Hook: Anyway, teaching- ⦠that,
Rupert Isaacson: that
myth there, absolutely.
It's,
Louis Hook: it's- Yes.
Teaching is the number one thing.
How do we broadly start moving on it?
And that's in my headset
of what we're doing.
Rupert Isaacson: But I,
Louis Hook: I do, I think that teaching-
In my next book, in my next book-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, go
Louis Hook: ahead.
Sorry ⦠the next book, which is
The New World Order: DEI Style.
That's my next book.
Okay?
Rupert Isaacson: What style?
Louis Hook: DEI style.
Rupert Isaacson: What's DEI?
Louis Hook: Diversity,
equity, and inclusion.
That's what Trump is attacking, right?
Okay.
So my book is named The
New World Order: DEI Style.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Louis Hook: Okay?
Which basically says w- we need toâ¦
I, I paint the picture of
how we became race-based.
The world accepts that.
The world's karma's out of balance
because it's based on a lie that
everybody knew, and how do we move to
the new world, which is the education
of the people of accurate history.
That's kind of the
model I'm putting forth.
Rupert Isaacson: No, I, I, I think it's-
Of immense use, I know it has been for me,
for people to know where they come from.
And one of the difficulties I think
for America in general, doesn't matter
actually what race you are, unless you're
Native American and you know exactly
where you come from is that there were
an overwhelming number of millions and
tens of millions of people, whether
they came on slave ships or whether
they came on as indentured laborers
from Ireland or Scotland, or whether
they came escaping a pogrom from Jews
from Eastern Europe, or whether they
were just trying their luck or whatever,
you had tens of millions of people.
So what happened was, people's
personal and family histories often
got lost unless they came from very
aristocratic or very specific en- you
know, enclaves within the Old World.
Whereas down in Africa where my
family's from, the immigration
was always actually very small.
So if you, if you had people 100 years
ago or 200 years ago in a particular
area, you know exactly who they were
and exactly what they did, and chances
are they're probably still there.
Because it was all very localized
and, and quite small populations.
So because of that, the sense of
place is quite strong, and the
sense of culture is quite strong.
And I think it's one of the reasons
why South Africa's been able to
weather the extreme difficulties
of its history and not go to hell
in the way that it might have- Yeah
Particularly post-apartheid.
But I think that within, within
the USA, it's, it's often a real
problem for people this feeling
of disconnection from culture.
And I think as you say, it's
particularly a problem in Black culture
because with history there was era-
with, with slavery, sorry, there was
erasure from the get-go, you know?
Louis Hook: Yeah.
It was, it was formally a part of how
do you help sl- slavery survive, was you
disconnect people from their history.
Yeah.
They can't know there was a Mansa
Musa who was the m- richest man
in the history of the world.
They can't know that.
Right.
Rupert Isaacson: And don't, and
you can't speak your language, and
you can't practice your religion.
Right.
And yeah, sure.
So I think if you can teach thoseâ¦
Because the, the, the equestrian side
of what you're teaching is simply the
economic history really of what- Yeah.
Louis Hook: That's it.
That's it.
Yeah
⦠Rupert Isaacson: I think that's of
immense value, I think, to anybody,
but I think particularly- Yeah
⦠Louis Hook: for people who are
looking back If you think of these-
things to Black- Think of the track
this way, think of this track.
Today's science can connect
people to their roots
Right now it's very expensive-
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah
⦠Louis Hook: to go get Mr.
Gates to go find the pope's
history of his whole, of where
he's, of his people, right?
To show that the pope is African,
okay, in his ancestry, which I
think is just the most amazing
thing, like two polar pieces for me.
Black president of the United
States and a multiethnic pope
who apologizes for slavery.
So, but if we have a program and pay
for connecting the dots of African, of
African Americans, people who don't have,
know their ancestry, and connecting them
to it I think it will go a long ways for
the world to understand these things.
So again, this is theâ¦
I think globally this way for whatever
reason, so I'm thinking in my book
I'm gonna say things like, "Hey, the
church can do this, the government can
do that," all these different channels
to start addressing the major ills
that I think need to be addressed so
that the world of civilization rises.
Rupert Isaacson: Can we talk a
little bit about inherited trauma?
I think we all have it, so
obviously, Louis, you don't, it
goes without saying, slavery.
My people on my Jewish side, coming
out of massive pogroms and mass
killings in in Eastern Europe.
And you know, Kansas, you will have
had your own family histories with
this and so on a- and, and so on.
Let's just start with you, Candice.
HeartMath.
From, from that perspective, whatâ¦
Does, does HeartMath have anything
to say about inherited trauma,
g- intergenerational trauma?
And if so, yeah, couldâ¦
Let's just talk about this.
Kansas Carradine: Well, it's not
specifically a topic I would say that
they put under the umbrella of their
literature and scope, but certainly
there's trauma-informed approaches for
as caregivers that we're helping to
navigate the emotions that the body
stores, and then over time as we a-
mature, it starts to kind of unwind
these undigested emotional imprints.
And the fact that we came back to the
discussion about your DNA, Lewis, I really
love that because basically what you're
doing in this program is reconnecting
individuals to the truth of their history.
You know, we are a product of the
mythology of the stories that we
tell ourselves, but it's in the DNA.
That doesn't lie.
So reeco- reconnecting to the equestrian
that's in your DNA seems to create a
sense of dignity, a sense of wellbeing-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Kansas Carradine: a sense of purpose,
reconnecting people to all those feelings,
and then we have those feelings that
realign us into a, a more coherent space.
Because when we are trauma affected,
when we're in complex or subtle aspects
of survival mode, fight or flight
tendencies, there's a dysregulation
that occurs, and that dysregulation gets
passed down generation to generation,
which is what we call that historical
trauma or that epigenetic trauma.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
J- just to Iâ¦
Again, as an academic, I
follow a lot of tracks.
I get lost in them sometimes.
But one of the tracks is that the
whole study of, of PTSD is has, has
progressed quite a bit over the last
five years showing that it's even
the militaries has to take it on, on
a different spa- way because they're
finding out how hardcore it is.
And what they find is
that clearly it is passed.
If you're suffering from PTSD, you're
gonna pass it on to your kids to
some degree just by how you raise
them, by how you deal with them.
But over intergenerationally, it
becomes passed genetically somehow.
They don't exactly understand the
mechanism, but it becomes genetic
rel- distress, and I believe it's
through these DNA connections that
we have 14 generations of DNA.
So when you, whether it's what you
like- Or how you react to something,
you don't even know why because you're
not connected to what's in there.
And so all these things-- And as we
know, if you just say slavery, you
know, that's there's a woman who studies
post-traumatic slave disorder, right?
Which is basically capturing
the concept for slavery.
If you, if you have pe-- Everybody
has some level of, of stress in
their whole thing, but if you lived
through slavery, you have a certain
kind of s- of of of traumatic stress
that you experience that's living
in your genes, it's living in you.
And typically, if you are that,
your kids are gonna have it, okay?
At some level.
So when I look at the, the study that
I'm want to do in the future is the
Black families who had more direct
fa-familial tracking and management of
themselves versus the ones that were
completely thrown to the wind, my guess
is you got a different kind of, of, of
of, of mental s-stability in that, in
those two different populations in terms
of who they are and who they became.
So as I look anecdotally at around my
own growing up, anecdotally of my own
experience with these kids out here
today, and I, I, I'm, I'm getting a sense
of how that flows and what are our--
what are the things that can address it.
Horses themselves, heart math kinds
of things and these other kind of
things that I'm starting to raise in
my mind of thinking globally from a
large perspective, what do we have to
do to, to get traction in this space
and pull it, pull it to the right way?
So again, PTSD
in history is not only because
you went through slavery.
Everybody has something,
like you, you say.
So, but in this Black community where
I say that you've got a r- a race based
world order, and you've got legitimately
saying those people over there in the
hood, the way they behave, what they
do something's wrong with them, right?
That thing is what I need to
address 'cause that is real, okay?
So, so anyway, that's
kinda how I think about it.
Rupert Isaacson: Is it getting better?
In your years in the hood, particularly,
you know, you started Compton Cowboys
at the sort of beginnings really
of the rise of at least the public
perception of gangster culture.
So you've watched the glamorization
of that, and presumably a couple of
generations of young kids wanting
to connect with that because perhaps
that was what there was to connect to.
Is it getting better?
Is it getting worse?
Louis Hook: So the way I looked at
it is that we're in a war, and we win
battles, but we're losing the war.
Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse
nerd, and if you're on this podcast,
I'm guessing you are, then you've
probably also always wondered a little
bit about the old master system.
of dressage training.
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony
program, we outline there step by step
exactly how to train your horse from
the ground to become the dressage horse
of your dreams in a way that absolutely
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Take it from there.
We're losing the war?
Louis Hook: Yeah.
So the battles being won, to me, the high
point of it is a Black man getting elected
to the most powerful country in the world.
At the same time, if you're a
racist, what does that do to you?
What do you think ofâ¦
You know.
So in the Black community,
there's all kinds of things.
"Oh, Obama's the greatest."
Others, "He never did anything
for Black people," all that stuff.
And I would just say, "Hey, that
symbolically is gonna have the
intergenerational impact," but it
also has a world impact of what's
going on now of the backlash to that.
That backlash is gonna change the
dynamics of the war back towards when
d- during segregation, Black people
were moving forward pretty dramatically.
You know, places that have
started the first schools.
I just read this thing where in South
Carolina, public school system was
put in place by the first majority
African American state state election
environment, what do you call them?
Whatever they, whoever
the, the, the politicians.
They were majority Black for the first
time in South Carolina after slavery.
They put in place public education in
first place across the country, and
that grew to what it is today, but
it, it, it morphed over time, right?
So but my, my, my point is,
so these large dynamics are f-
affecting us, so I believe weâ¦
I've been, in my timeframe,
winning battles, losing the war.
But I believe the dynamics are changing
such that the war- is s- is gonna,
the, the, the, the, the fight in the
war who's winning is redirecting,
is, is, is, it's changing through.
Again, looking at, again, I look
at these as 100-year cycles, right?
100-year things.
It took 100 years to end slavery.
It took 100 years to end
Jim Crow formal, I call it.
We're in informal Jim Crow where
all the racists went underground.
So those people are able, because we can't
count them, who's, who's a racist and
who's not, and they influence the world.
And so those people are the core of
the re-rise of, of a guy who's trying
to take the entire world back to the
colonial period of the way it was.
That's the way I look at it.
Gunboat diplomacy, all of that, and
that's not gonna win because there
aren't enough people to support that.
The, you and I in Kansas are
not gonna support that, and
so it's gonna lose in the end.
But in the meantime, we got
a massive battle going on.
But I think the direction is in
the right direction, and it's
because from personally, God is
moving us in the right direction.
And this thing is, again, gonna
play itself out over 100 years.
Well, well, I won't be there to
see it, but I'm confident that
it's moving in the right direction.
Rupert Isaacson: What
can we do ourselves now?
So for example I'm sitting here in Europe.
Kansas is also sitting in a
different area of California to you.
I know from having lived in the
USA, it's still very segregated
for a bazillion reasons, but it is.
And so if I was to be living in
the US now, I probably wouldn't
be coming to Compton Cowboys
because I wouldn't be living there.
And even if I did go there,
I might or might not be made
welcome in that neighborhood.
Sure ⦠it would depend
on certain factors.
The only place I ever lived actually in
the USA where I'd said I experienced sort
of really easy, interplay between the
races, oddly enough, was Denver, Colorado.
I lived in Denver, Colorado for about
two years, and I had all these Black
friends, and then I lived in all these
other places and I kind of didn't.
And this was really noticeable to me.
There was an ease there for some reason.
Louis Hook: One of my best
friends, who happened to go to
school with me at Occidental, and
he's one of Obama's best friends-
Rupert Isaacson: Uh-huh
⦠Louis Hook: he grew up in Denver,
and so I know a little bit
about what happened in Denver.
Rupert Isaacson: So what
Louis Hook: happened there?
And his, his dad was one of the
founders of Howard and his mother wasâ¦
They worked hard on those
school things, and they moved to
Denver because of what theyâ¦
Who the, the, the, the, the cities that
were there, they were related to them,
and they saw what, There was a woman,
and I can't recall her name, who founded
one of the major cities outside of
Denver that was kind of a Black town.
And so they moved there, and they evolved
in that space that I haven't looked into
it really hardcore, but his sense is that
they influenced that Denver environment.
And I was shocked to, to,
to learn of it, right?
So when he came out, in fact, my
sense of him was that he wasâ¦
I- in, in my young years, I was, I
had animosity for Blacks who were more
integrated and he was one of those
guys that we were friends, but at part
I was like, "How did you do that?"
Same thing for Obama.
Obama was a surfer, and in my
neighborhood, surfers were the, the poor
white kids who we used to fight, okay?
Obama came from Hawaii.
He was a surfer when
I met him at the Oxon.
So, but I learned that that integration
model is, is the mob, right?
For everybody to come together.
Rupert Isaacson: We are all
Louis Hook: humans.
Rupert Isaacson: And- Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
So, yeah, so I don't know a lot of the
detail, but I have a sense of it from the
players that came out of it, and who Iâ¦
What I do know about it, why it wouldâ¦
This is the first time I heard an
external person say it like you're
saying it, but it makes all the sense
in the world to me that it would be that
Kansas Carradine: way.
So was it- Talking about integration and,
and- Go ahead, yeah ⦠so growing up
in public school system in Los Angeles,
which I went to as well you know, the
integration was very much a part of it.
So as you guys were talking, I
was thinking of, I've always tried
to find, like, my best friend in
fifth grade, Kamiko Brown, who
was part of the busing programs.
And so I was going to school, like,
right kind of there at Hollywood and
Highland in the heart of LA, and just
grew up with always having friends.
It didn't matter.
Everybody was different colors, different
backgrounds, and we were just all in
fifth grade, you know, trying to survive
Louis Hook: in LA.
That's what got Obama elected.
That is what got Obama elected, is that.
The basketball, the guys playing
basketball, multiracial basketball
game after, after school.
Mm.
Kansas Carradine: Okay?
Yeah.
And yet, at the same time, there's
complexity to it because you're
also saying that during the time of
segregation, there was thriving of
these independent Black communities.
So there, but there was, I think,
really- But not in, not integration
⦠intentional disruption of that, right?
And so w- the integration was creating a
s- a, a change in kind of normalizing that
we can see beyond color and demographics.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And we can be friendly, and we
can get along together, just
human to human, heart to heart.
And at the same time, there's this
insidious work that's done by certain
opposing power forces that were trying
to deconstruct the thriving populations
of those specific separate ethnic groups.
Right.
And that, I think, is
interesting, those two aspects.
But if I, if I tell you aboutâ¦
Louis Hook: Yeah, I tell, me personally,
I had animosity towards those people.
Yeah.
Because of how I grew up poor, and those
were the haves and we're the have-nots.
And part of it was- Mm ⦠on both sides,
my feelings and their feelings of the
middle-class Blacks moving in a certain
kind of way, what I call the post- Mm
⦠racial society is how they were moving.
And, "Oh, you guys over there, hey, we're
gonna try to help you as best we can."
But what I see is the middle-class
Blacks worked very hard to raise the,
the, the s- the lifestyles, I mean,
the, the, the life outcomes of all Black
people, and effectively they failed.
We, I failed.
Because Black people are still at the
bottom, poor, distributed, and the like.
And all the things that we
did as middle-class people, we
ran- we were the politicians,
the judges, the this, the that
Yeah.
That'sâ¦
Rupert Isaacson: I would take, I
Kansas Carradine: take issue with
that, though Sorry about that break
up, but I would say the horses-
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Kansas Carradine: I- But the horses end up
being like this baskick- basketball court,
though, because once you get on a horse,
male or female, where the, where you come
from, all of a sudden it's, it's- King
Rupert Isaacson: or commoner-
Kansas Carradine: There's otherâ¦
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly ⦠the
horse treats you the same.
Yeah.
Also, Louis, you cannot say that
Compton Cowboys is a failure.
Louis Hook: No, that's
not what I'm saying.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, but it
is worth drawing that analogy.
I, I do know that that's
not what you're saying.
Yeah.
But however, you, a middle class Black
man who came out of the hood and went to
the white institutions, you went to MIT,
you went to Harvard, so you did integrate,
you know, to, to, even if you didn't
think you were at the time, you were.
Louis Hook: No, no, I knew.
I, I, I knew
Rupert Isaacson: that.
Right.
Yeah.
But, but good because then you, you
achieved a, an economic status where
you could bring that back, and you
could uplift the hood, and Compton
Cowboys is a thing, and it exists.
So I, I doubt that Compton Cowboys
would have existed but for the
historical process that you've
just outlined, the recent one.
So I, I'm, I'm, I'm the eternal
optimist, but I, I sort of feel that
you, that Compton Cowboys is an act-
is, is a, an allegory of your success,
and of a certain success- Yeah ⦠for
personal endeavors within this space.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Actually- Because
it's always small groups of people
that make things better, right?
Louis Hook: Right.
Right.
But that's my position
of we're winning wars.
Compton Cowboys is winning battles.
I mean- Yeah ⦠we, we, we just
win battles, but when looking at the
global picture, we're losing the war.
But the war dynamics are changing now-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay
⦠Louis Hook: as they did before,
so I'm confident that it'll
move in the right direction.
But no question, Compton Cowboys and all
the organizations like that so when I
look at my peers who, when I first moved
here, said, "Don't go there," and my
friends who now understand what we have
are like, "Man, how did you see that?"
Okay?
So we're, weâ¦
The, these dynamics, they're
changing, and they change over time.
But like I said, my own perspective is
I live in, I have a foot in both worlds,
the Black middle class and at the hood.
Okay?
And I had a, some perspective of it
when I was a kid, and I have this
perspective of it as, as an adult
with all kinds of analytical analysis
capability behind me as I look at it.
So I'm looking at that That Black middle
class, having been deadly focused on
raising the, the lives of Black people.
That is all that I'm saying is the
methodology was failed, but now the
strategy and tactics are changing
to more what they needed to be.
So I'll give you an example.
The Nation of Islam had a model
that basically builds on the Jewish
model, the Judaism model, which is
self-reliance, own your own history
Promote entrepreneurialism all of
those things that include who you
are by the traditions, how you live.
That model has held the Jews
together to be able to s- survive the
oppression that they have been just
totally b- attempted to be decimated.
On the other local little extreme,
in the Black community, the Nation
of Islam has that same kind of model.
The problem that they encountered
was they became cultish in saying
the white man is the devil incarnate.
Black people, we just
don't think that way.
We wanna be open to everybody.
So again, if you look at interracial
couples that I've seen and I've
studied, they're more accepted
in the Black community than, than
they are in the white community.
Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.
Louis Hook: Okay.
So because we're just back from,
when we said hunter gatherers, when
you can walk out there and grab a, a
apple off the tree and reach in the
water and get a fish, life is to be
integrated with nature, not fight it.
So that part is, to me, a
foundation of who we are.
So when the racists think of, "Man,
if these Black people get in control,
they may do to us what we did to
them," it's nowhere near how do Black
people stay committed to this country,
is 'cause who Black people are.
And people in terms of, "Hey, we
are all about grabbing what we
can and unifying what we can can."
So anyway, I'm diverse, going
in a different direction.
But I wanna say we are as a Black
community, kind of rethinking how
we define ourselves so we can help
lift ourselves as well as integrate
with the general population.
Hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: What can Ka-
so I work globally, right?
40 countries, whatever.
Wow.
Kansas works all over the place, right?
Mm-hmm.
And you're, you're sitting here on
a platform that will be listened to
across the English-speaking world.
Mm-hmm.
So people in Australia are gonna be
listening to this, you know, people
wherever are gonna be listening.
Certainly people in South Africa
will be listening to this, but also a
lot of people in the USA and Europe.
So- This is your, one of your
moments, I hope not the only one.
I hope that we have you on the show a lot.
But you are now, you, you're gonna
speak directly now to the people
running equine-assisted programs.
Most of them are white.
Most of them are in white areas.
Not all, but most.
Louis Hook: Mm-hmm.
Rupert Isaacson: Tell us
what you want us to do.
What next steps over, say,
the next five years or so.
If you said, "Listen, lads, I want you to
do this, I want you to do this, I want you
to do this, and I want you to do this."
Yeah.
'Cause we're the kind of
people who will listen.
Tell us, what do you want us to do?
Louis Hook: Yeah, so
I'll give you an example.
Just like we say, there are Compton
Cowboys type programs which is, our
nonprofit is called Compton Genuine
Equestrians, which is for these kids.
And funding is the number one
thing, along with the expertise
of how to really execute it.
So when you, the equine sci- therapy
part for medical issues, whether it's
autism or therapy, whatever, I, I'm
not sure how much of the focus of the
groups you're talking to is on this
Shadow PTSD that these that African
Americans are facing in the hood.
There's no, there's no designation
of that as a illness, okay?
Okay.
So somehow help us identify that-
Rupert Isaacson: Okay
⦠Louis Hook: and garner resources
towards that, because that's
the broader population of
Black people who can get there.
Now, I also do believe horses can help
anybody, but horses isn't for everybody.
So y- you haveâ¦
The, the, the way I, I understand that
is we have field trips that we bring
in people from schools, you know, 30
to 50 kids with their supervision,
and they come in and they always
have a great experience with the
horses and the ranch and everything.
Often, oh, that was their
greatest field trip for the
year when they do the surveys.
But you can always tell who horses
are for because those three kids
out of those 30 or more are s- are
the entire time wandering around
in awe with their mouths wide open.
And we would use that to say, "Those
three kids, horses is for them.
Let's figure out how to work together
with the school or whomever to get
them into this equestrian space."
So that's as I say it, it's that
identification as an additional track for
problem-solving of these equine-assisted
therapy, is identifying this
Again, it's not diagnosed PTSD,
I've been told by the scientists,
don't even, don't say it.
But whatever we wanna call it
That is a area of, that needs
equine assistance therapy.
And that's what we do, and if you get
it added to that group, then that's
what they'll start picking up as well.
Which
Rupert Isaacson: through our- Yeah,
I'm thinking about, like- Through
organizations like us- ⦠Horses
and Humans Research Foundation,
and people like that, or o- our
friends c- like Kes Sullivan, and Dr.
Anne Hathaway at
University of Bournemouth.
I mean, they're the people who would
want to look into this kind of thing.
Right ⦠and I think, so I
think we should go and have a
conversation with them and say,
"What about- I would love it.
Yeah ⦠trying to get some studies
going on this," Right ⦠sort of
post-colonial, post-slavery PTSD.
How does it manifest particularly in
young people, and what do we as the e-
equine assisted world want to offer?
I think that's- Mm-hmm ⦠exactly,
you know, what we should do.
And if you're- I, I agree ⦠y- y-
you, you should be that voice, you know?
And it's platforms like this
conversation right now that hopefully
get these conversations going.
Louis Hook: I, I
Kansas Carradine: look forward- And what
Louis Hook: you offer ⦠Oh, go ahead.
No, I was just saying I look forward
to that, to the degree we can.
Again, I'm in my five-year path
of figuring out my retirement
path, and it's this stuff.
Rupert Isaacson: Good luck.
Louis Hook: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: You're not gonna retire.
You're gonna die in harness, yeah.
Kansas Carradine: Well, and if you
were to come to Compton Cowboys,
you would also see that they do not,
they serve the entire community, and
Los Angeles is pretty b- diverse.
It's a melting pot.
They don't turn people away just
because they're not African American.
You know, you'll see every member of
the community that is there and all
united, again, in this equalizing
field of seeking to be an equestrian.
And it's interesting because now
they're starting to actively look
at a genetic marker that shows the
proclivity toward kind of agrarian
culture or farm life or being- Wow.
Wow ⦠someone who's good
at m- animal husbandry.
And I have no doubt that very soon
they will be atten- to be able to
identify the equestrian gene trait.
Or those who had developed their
horsemanship enough to survive,
because honestly, those were the
ones who would continue to breed.
And similarly, we have horses who
were bred to partner well with humans.
So there's this type of co-evolution-
Louis Hook: Mm
⦠Kansas Carradine: that's taken
place between horse and human
for many, many, many years.
And you're reconnecting- Wow ⦠people
to that, to their, their history,
what's really- Mm ⦠in the DNA.
And it's n- not surprising that-
Mm ⦠the universe would create this
unique constellation so that the horses
are actually part of what becomes the
healing from the epigenetic trauma.
Mm-hmm.
And the, the diversity, equity, and
inclusion, the DEI model, that's
what the Compton Cowboys is living
now, because they're not saying,
"We're only here for Blacks."
We're here for everybody.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
What's really funny is when I grew up in
the projects, my neighbors were, Latino,
Mexican, Samoan, Filipino, whites in the
housing projects, 'cause it was a military
housing projects, so we got a whole
range of diverse kind of people there.
But it was the people who didn't
have jobs and stuff, but they wereâ¦
it was fairly diverse.
So my elementary school was diverse.
And so my, my sister, when she
started from the beginning with
Compton Junior Posse, she made
sure we included everybody in the
neighborhood, you know, whoever's here.
And in Compton now, it's probably about
70% Latino, so we have major bridges.
And my son Randy has
continued that as you see it.
We-- this is what we do.
It's it's all about that
Rupert Isaacson: Interestingly,
epigenetic trauma with horses, you know,
you're talking about whether it's the
West Africans controlling the slave
trade with their-- and the gold trade
with their horses or whether it's the
conquest of the American West and the
genocides against the Native Americans
or whether it was Genghis Khan and
Kublai Khan and Tamerlane and- Right
all those people doing what they
did in Eurasia or whether it was
the Crusades or whether it was the
Seljuk Turks or whether it wasâ¦
Unfortunately horses have participated
in and been used for, hijacked for really
most of the great acts of criminal,
criminality large scale criminality.
You couldn't do, you couldn't
Louis Hook: do it without the horses.
You just couldn't do it.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Horses and ships, you
needed those two things.
Yeah.
And but it's not the fault of the ocean
and it's not the fault of the horse.
And one of the things which I
love about this work is the horse
will lend you its power either way
as this kind of innocent Being.
The horse will always make
you superhuman, right?
So it's how do you wanna use it?
And you can use it to harm
your fellow man, or you can
use it to heal your fellow man.
It's entirely up to you.
The horse will lend you
his power either way.
But I think we know which one
the horse would rather do.
Louis Hook: Right.
Yeah.
No question about it.
And the horse, with the, you know, kind
of development of, of, of the auto-
the automobile and the like, horses
got pushed to the sideline in the war
effort, so they're, they, they, they're
wide open for use for the peace effort.
Mm-hmm.
Okay?
We can really build them out in
that space because they're not
needed in the war effort anymore.
But they are needed-
Rupert Isaacson: And you can be sure,
you can be sure when the clashes of
cavalry happened, you know, let's say
it was the Roman cavalry meeting the
West African cavalry or the Crusaders
meeting the Saracens or whoever.
Right.
The horses, if you turn them all
loose on the battlefield, would
have just walked up to each other,
had a sniff, and formed a herd.
Louis Hook: Exactly.
Right.
No doubt about it, you know.
So now we have the
complete wide open space-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Louis Hook: to use them for what
they're, what God designed them to do.
Kansas Carradine: Mm.
It's a beautiful contribution.
And another contribution I don't wanna
miss is what Compton Cowboys has done
to advocate to maintain the educational
opportunities for horse centers to
still and remain open in LA County.
Louis, can you speak
about that a little bit?
Louis Hook: Yeah.
You know, there's aâ¦
I- in Compton by itself, we've
been, we had to fight over the years
to maintain our space, where the
commercialization wanted to kind of build
it out to more housing and the like.
And the only thing that saved
us was the deed as it was deeded
over, said you can't do it.
So that battle we, that we have, we've
taken on where, you know, there are the
animal rights people who are appropriately
fighting against the abuse of the animals
and use of them when they hurt them.
But at the same time, there are
things that the horses can do
that are really just athletics.
And that we gotta try to support
that effort and support the effort
to keep these centers over open so
that people have a space to go do
the healthy things with the horses.
So, Randy's been, he's spoken down at city
council and different places for, against
initiatives where people are trying to
kind of close the loop and close the door.
Kansas Carradine: Now we can't
go to Griffith Park, for example,
and, you know, have that first
point of access 'cause they've shut
down- Has that been closed down?
Rupert Isaacson: You, you can't take the
Kansas Carradine: ride
in Griffith Park anymore?
Some of the, the LA Equestrian
Center is still open, but taking,
like, the first contact of a lot of
people would've been a pony ride.
And I understand there's different
parameters to how to do those ethically
and with the best integrity to care for
the horses and the ponies, so, but then
it became this kind of blanket policy that
they're gonna shut down riding schools.
And so from what I understand, you guys
made sure that that did not happen so
that you could still keep your doors open.
And we
Louis Hook: participated in a
group against that, so it was good.
We, we slowed, we, we slowed it down.
Like I say, it's, the corner of it comes
from the people who are abusing the
horses and all the horses dying in, in the
race- at the racetrack, and all kinds of
legitimate reasons to say we need to have
some kind of oversight over what's going
on and kind of refocus what we're doing.
But the core fight is the relationship
with the horses is key, and
people need that, that outlet,
and the horses need it, and weâ¦
Y- you're gonna shut it all down
if you, if you, if we let you.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
This is, this is something
that's dear to my heart.
So, I grew up in the fox hunting world,
and there is no doubt that in live
fox hunting, if you were a fox, you
wouldn't want to participate in it.
And however, it is a very, very,
very strong countryside culture,
which actually helps protect the
countryside because people want the
foxes, so they protect the habitats.
Whether or not you think that's
ethical or not, that is the way it is.
Now, I no longer fox hunt.
I gave up because a Navajo medicine
man told me I had to give up,
and but it, it was always sitting
a little bit uncomfortably with
me, but I still ride to hounds.
We have adapted what we do, and we have
a pack of hounds, and we hunt each other.
Oh.
And when the hounds catch us, they lick
us to death, and but if I'm the quarry
today and the hounds are hunting me,
I can have a bit of fun on my horse.
Yeah, yeah.
And I can lead you across some
country that's gonna be a little bit
challenging, and I can- Yeah, yeah
try to lose the scent.
I can behave like a fox.
I can double back on myself.
I can go through the water.
I canâ¦
And see, you know, will
the hounds work it out?
You know, and they always do.
Wow.
Yeah ⦠but what we started doing was
we, we, we took that model just from a
point of ethics, say, how can we have
this thing that we love but not harm?
And we still, we still look after
the same habitats we used to look
after, but just we're not, no longer
hunting the live animal that's in them.
But with then we thought, "No,
let's go a stage further."
So we started creating
inclusive hunting days.
So we began to train a group of horses
to be able to take special needs riders.
Mm-hmm.
And we had them coming out to
hounds, including people with
spina bifida, including people with
autism, including people withâ¦
Not all jumping, not all doing that stuff.
Everyone doing it at the level they could.
And then we thought, "This is not enough."
And so then we thought,
"Well, that's not enough."
So we started reaching out to some local
schools, this is a town in Germany, which
had been overrun with refugee populations
from Syria, from the Ukraine, and all
sorts of violence, all sorts of problems.
And we're like, "These kids are not
getting exposed to the countryside at all.
Let's invite these guys out for
these countryside days that were
built around these artificial
hunts that we were doing."
And then we could invite them to the
parties, and they could follow some
on horseback, some on foot, and learn
about the countryside because it's also
an organic farm that we're going over.
And, and, and, and what we realized
was this term inclusion, it's
not really anymore about are you
Black, are you white are youâ¦
What it is about is are you
urban or are you country?
Are you concerned about nature
and involved with nature, or
are you cut off from nature?
Are you with conservation
or are you with concrete?
Are you with the relationship
with animals or are you
divorced from that relationship?
And we realize, you know, it's
organizations like yours, like mine,
like the work you're doing, Ganzs,
that are bringing effectively the
urban populations into contact with
nature, and nature and the mind.
And ultimately, this is really the thing.
The horse is just one of the
many mechanisms for that.
So what can we do to further
this type of inclusion?
Because as you say, if people don't
get to ride the horse in Griffith Park,
then why do they care about the range?
And if they don't care about the range,
then why do they care about plastering
that whole area with industrial stuff?
And why doâ¦
You know, people are not gonna
care about the planet unless
they're in contact with it.
And the horse, of course,
brings us into contact with it.
So what can we do around this?
You know, and your, your, your, and
your nephew's efforts, you know, with
LA County are definitely part of this.
And I know you're sitting- Right
up in the Sierras, you know, which
is always under threat from being
suburbanized 'cause lots of people
wanna go and build tract houses-
Yeah ⦠up there, Ganzs, you know.
So yeah, what, what can we do?
Louis Hook: For my answer is
one, there's California money for
exposure to the outdoors, and our
game plan is to go after that.
And what we wanna do is use the
field trip model to say every school
should have a field trip to a ranch.
We can be that ranch,
bring the field trip.
We can handle probably-
At least five field trips a week, right?
And that gives the kids exposure.
For us, it helps us identify
kids who may wanna get in-- sh-
we should be getting involved.
But more importantly, all the kids we
have, because we do have the horses, we
have the farming we have the gardening.
Those three things they get to
interact with at whatever age.
So we-- when we do field trips, we
find that that's a way to get exposure.
So all of us little guys like us, if
we are set up so that we can support
a field trip model to say, "Hey,
every school, you have to have a field
trip to a ranch or a farm somewhere."
And we're on the list,
sign us, sign 'em up.
And then that's fundraising for us
also because these-- the schools,
they pay for field trips to go places.
So if we're in that budget cycle,
that helps us with funding, helps
expose the kids to the outdoors,
and boom, that one worked for us
Rupert Isaacson: Kansas
Kansas Carradine: What I would say
to this piece, yeah, you know, where
I'm living, I'm in the High Sierras
of northern California, close to
Nevada, and this is Wasi'chu region.
Historically tho- known
as the Washoe tribe.
And just about 30 minutes away there is
the magnificent Lake Tahoe, which is a
main tourist dest- destination around the
world, and many members of the Wasi'chu
community have never taken that 35-mile
trip up to see the lake of their ancestry.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Kansas Carradine: And so what I would
remind is, yes, the field trips.
And if you can mentor, if you can be
a volunteer for these programs, if you
happen to be somebody who is stewarding
some horses and has a, a, a, a stable
that you can invite other members
of your community, find out who they
are, to create that inclusion, that
diversity, that equity so that there's,
that we maintain the accessibility.
I think that's really
what we're looking at.
And learn the stories so that we
can really tell the stories that are
important to continue to reinforce
those goals and those ideals.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, we are
the storytelling ape after all.
That is what defines our species.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Louis Hook: So, and one, so if
we can get w- from the, from
our side, we're reaching up.
"Hey, you guys wanna take a field trip?"
Right?
We'll, we'll, we'llâ¦
If we get the other, coming from
the other side, we gotta find field
trips for these kids to the outdoors.
We have to find it.
Let's get out there and
find them and pay for them.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
I think this is, this is relevant
whether you're listening to this from
Yorkshire or London or Johannesburg or
Washington DC or wherever, that Berlin,
that yes, these kids need these outlets.
This, the, there is
money out there for this.
I think everyone who's listening to
this can empathize with what with,
with what Lewis was saying about
fundraising and, and, and the search
for philanthropy even when, The
Beckhams live in your neighborhood.
You know, I know people who are running
programs sort of like literally,
or they're living across the hedge,
but they're not yet donating.
But nonetheless, there are these
mechanisms there, and I think if
we can think beyond horses, if
we can think nature and the mind-
Louis Hook: Yeah
⦠Rupert Isaacson: sure, let the
horses be ambassadors for this.
Mm-hmm.
But a lot of we horse people are a
little bit too horse-focused, and we can
get very much going, "No, no, no, it's
just about the equine-assisted thing."
It's like, yes, but A, that may not keep
you afloat, B, not every kid, as Louis
was saying, is into the horses, and C, the
horses create the environment for nature
and the mind, for these other things.
Mm-hmm.
So surely we want to be part
of this larger patchwork, no?
Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Louis Hook: It can be ⦠It's a powerful
movement, again, as we connect to the to
⦠We're in this climate change battle.
But part of it is the people need
to know why they're battling, okay?
And if they don't have exposure to it,
they're, like, kind of indifferent.
Mm-hmm.
So in my neighborhood and with the
kids I work with, "Eh, climate change.
Eh, well, well, whatever."
Right?
But to the degree that they are exposed
to it and say, "This is what's going away
if we don't do something about it," they
all will ge- be engaged at a higher level.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Kansas Carradine: Mm.
Rupert Isaacson: I couldn't agree more.
All right, so that's what we're gonna do.
Nature and the mind.
Expose the kids to nature,
make our equine-assisted places
nature and the mind places.
That, I think, also helps break down the
racial mythologies and so on, because
then it re- If you're going out for
nature and the mind, and the person
showing you this part of nature has this
color skin or that color skin, or speaks
this language or that language, orâ¦
Then it's just, then it's just a point
of cultural interest, but no longer a
point of ethnic antagonism or warfare.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: And then
maybe that, maybe that war that
you're talking about can be won.
Louis Hook: Yeah.
' Rupert Isaacson: Cause it's
Louis Hook: really- I'm certain, I'm
certain it will be, because these
kind of dialogues are pushing us all.
Mm-hmm.
They're happening more
and all over the place.
We just gotta keep, as you're trying
to do, is say, "Hey, what can we do?"
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
" Louis Hook: What can we do?
How do we get focused on it?
How do we work together to get it done?"
My position on these things
is everybody needs to do what,
the way they wanna do it.
You can't say, "Hey, we all
ha- should do it this way."
Mm-hmm.
But you put out some ideas, and if
you can get momentum around some
of them, then that's how they grow.
Rupert Isaacson: I couldn't agree more.
All right.
Well, I guess we've hit the two-hour mark.
What I'd love to do, Louis,
is have you on the other show.
Okay, great ⦠Live Free Ride Free,
and, and let's, we can dive in and
become history nerds, 'cause I love that.
Louis Hook: Oh man, I love that.
And we're gonna nerd out.
I,
Rupert Isaacson: I see
I would learn so much.
We're gonna nerd.
Down rabbit hole, rabbit hole,
rabbit hole, rabbit hole.
Pop up and go down another one.
Yeah.
I look forward to learning ⦠and
I hope, I hope Candice will join us
because she's a lover of rabbits-
Kansas Carradine: Yes,
I'm also a horse nerd
Rupert Isaacson: and a horse nerd.
There
Kansas Carradine: you go.
And rabbit holes.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So,
Kansas Carradine: thank you.
And don't forget, you can contact
the, look for the Compton C-
Compton Cowboys- Thank you.
Oh, so busy, Maddie ⦠Compton
Junior Equestrians.
I think there's a Donate Now button.
Wait, can you tell us a
little bit, Louis- Yeah.
How do we support you?
about how to make sure that the
resources- Yeah, you go to our
website ⦠continue to flow in that way?
Louis Hook: Yeah, if you go to either
Compton Cowboys, you can Google it,
or go to or just comptoncowboys.com
or comptonjuniorequestrians.org.
There's a donate pathway that you can
pick up online, and just go for it, okay?
And you have many options.
You can give us a dollar a a month,
up to however much you want a month.
You can support a specific horse.
You can support a rider in the s- in
the after school and summer camps.
However you wanna do
it, we are open to it.
Kansas Carradine: Can you share also
how much it costs to participate in
the summer camp in California- Okay.
So, so our- ⦠just to, in 2026?
Yeah,
Louis Hook: our-
Kansas Carradine: Just to get an idea how
you make this cost-effective to families.
Our summer camp,
Louis Hook: our summer camp
cost is about, the cost is about
400 bucks per per kid per week.
And, We charge 25â¦
$50.
So the difference is however
much money we can raise.
Rupert Isaacson: Did you
hear that Snoop Dogg?
Did you hear that Ice Cube?
Did
Kansas Carradine: you hear that Kendrick?
So, and just to give relevancy, that's how
much it was at my riding school in 1989.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Yeah.
Kansas Carradine: So the, the, and
the cost of, you know, the liability
insurance, the property taxes, the hay.
I don't care if you're a non-profit or
not, all those things are expensive.
Rupert Isaacson: They're expensive.
So- Also- You can see- ⦠Lewis,
you say, you say it costs 400 ⦠I
do, I do- It costs way more than
400, 'cause you're not factoring in
the time- Totally ⦠of the people.
Right.
It- Oh, for sure ⦠you know
it's, it's more like 2K per kid.
It's m- Volunteer-
Kansas Carradine: Yeah
⦠Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
Louis Hook: Yeah, because we got
holidays every month and all that.
So thank you for making it accessible.
So, so the issue is, like you said, Iâ¦
There's, there are people who
can say, "Look, I'll sponsor
10 kids for the summer."
He, he, he, he just make
their w- lives, okay?
Make our lives.
Because then we're getting money
at the full rate, which is the
cost, and we're able to do it.
It's as opposed to indirectly
raising the money to get it.
But we're, we're moving pretty good.
We got a good investment to
help us upgrade the facility.
We had a lot of issues with the facility.
And we just got a $400,000 grant from
a local foundation again, because
a guy who grew up in Compton said,
"I like what you guys are doing."
Okay?
And he's a white guy and the
family, and all, all good.
By the way, I just wanted to tell
you, one of my best friends, my
college roommate's a Jewish guy.
We, we, we've been doing Jewish
Black studies together for
our whole lives since college.
Rupert Isaacson: That's another, that's
another very good rabbit hole, that one.
Yep.
Louis Hook: That one, yes.
Kansas Carradine: The next conversation.
Rupert Isaacson: It, it is.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
The, the, the Black Jewish
history, that's a whole thing.
Louis Hook: Amazing.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Okay.
So, comptoncowboys.com.
Yep.
And donate buttons.
Mm-hmm.
And Snoop Dogg, are you listening?
'Cause they, you could
d- 20,000 a week maybe?
Maybe to, you know, something
small like that perhaps.
Sure ⦠tax deductible, hey.
But if not, it'll probably be people
like me and old grannies living in
Rangitikei, New I- New Zealand listening
to this who will send- We're, we're,
Louis Hook: we're not pi- we're not picky.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Because we know, we-- yeah,
and this is the thing.
The, the good-hearted
people always come through.
But yeah, please, listeners, please
do support them 'cause it's iconic.
It-- we, you need things like Compton
Cowboys almost just because they're
called Compton Cowboys, and they draw
attention to the fact that something like
that can exist in a place like Compton.
And this is- Mm ⦠more meaningful,
frankly, than sometimes what I'm doing
out in Texas or what I'm doing in, you
know, rural Germany or so, just because
the odds against it are, are greater.
And the needs of the kids in that
particular setting are more acute perhaps.
So thank you, Louis, for doing the
work, and thank you Kansas, for not
just all you do but also specifically
the work that I know you've gone and
done with horsemanship and heart math
down there at the Compton Cowboys.
Are you going back again anytime soon?
Are you due to go back for-
Kansas Carradine: I will
be going back again, yeah.
I was actually gonna talk to you guys,
guys about that, especially since you've
got summer camps going on, so we are-
Yeah, so summer camp is- ⦠going
to co- continue to collaborating.
We're expecting- When I come down
on the weekends, they don't always
have so much going on on the
weekends, but summer camp is thriving
Louis Hook: Yes, yes.
And we, we are in our second week
of, I think, 10 weeks, so you'll
have some, they'll have some
time to put it together with you.
Get, get with Mark.
Let's do it, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
And, And
Louis Hook: I, I just
want to say thank you.
This has been so refreshing, enlightening.
I'm, I'm a s- I'm a forever student,
so I'm learning great things, and
then the opportunity to tell our
story is always just so appreciated.
It's it's pretty incredible.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, thank you.
No, you, you've, you've, you've come
here and told a wonderful story.
And I would like to come with
Kansas sometime if you want to
do learn any of our methodologies
with neuroscience and horses.
H- it's all based around autism
trauma, that sort of thing.
And also for classical dressage
and horsemanship, particularly the
ground-based stuff which is always
useful for kids to learn for their-
Louis Hook: Yeah
⦠Rupert Isaacson: their horsemanship.
Yeah, our whole English side- I'm at your
service, so I'd love to come and do that.
Louis Hook: Yeah, our entire English side,
because of funding, it's more expensive
over there, so we kind of pulled back.
We had, we had a, a, a jumping
team- Mm-hmm ⦠and we just
had to pull back from it.
But our, our goal is to get back to it.
It takes funding and-
Rupert Isaacson: Well, the classical
stuff is equally applicable to Western.
It's just pan-horseman.
Right.
Doesn't re- doesn't matter the
discipline- Yeah ⦠as, as,
Yeah ⦠Kansas well knows.
Louis Hook: Absolutely.
Rupert Isaacson: But I'm at
your service, you know, and I'll
happily, gladly come and- Okay.
And,
Louis Hook: and you got to come
down and hang with us at the at
the ranch and see what we do.
Rupert Isaacson: I will be there.
Kansas, are we doing it?
Yeah.
Kansas Carradine: Yeah.
Amen.
Yeah.
Okay.
Definitely.
Rupert Isaacson: All right.
All right.
Kansas Carradine: We'll have it happen.
Rupert Isaacson: All
Kansas Carradine: right, Rockets.
Thank you so much, Lewis.
All right.
Thank you.
I'm so glad you guys finally connected.
Rupert Isaacson: Me too.
Thank you so much.
Kansas Carradine: It was just delightful.
Rupert Isaacson: We will see
Kansas Carradine: you next time.
See you all
Louis Hook: soon.
Great.
Bye-bye.
Rupert Isaacson: Bye-bye.
Kansas Carradine: Thanks, Rupert.
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you, Kansas.
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