Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

Here on Equine Assisted World.

We look at the cutting edge and the best
practices currently being developed and,

established in the equine assisted field.

This can be psychological, this
can be neuropsych, this can be

physical, this can be all of the
conditions that human beings have.

These lovely equines, these beautiful
horses that we work with, help us with.

Thank you for being part of the adventure
and we hope you enjoy today's show

Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.

I've got Shay Stewart.

Shay Stewart if you listened to her
podcast that I did with her over

on Live Free, Ride Free, that's
our other podcast, you'll know that

she's somebody who knows an awful lot
about things that we often don't know

about, like fascia and mitochondria.

And, the liquid intelligence
of the body, which is a thing.

And, the way light operates
in the body in cells.

Not as a woo woo thing,
but as a biological thing.

And how this affects well being.

In all sorts of ways, and she's also
a horse, a horse woman, and very

much in demand as a craniosacral
practitioner with horses.

Some of you may know that she's
been on Warwick Schiller's

podcast Journey On, et cetera.

And I'm always fascinated to talk
to to talk to Shea, because I always

learn it, you know, all the stuff I
haven't yet caught up on, it's good.

But I wanted her on this show because
if you are a practitioner of anything

equine assisted, you've basically
got three things you're always

having to bear in mind, four really.

One is the well being of
your clients and your horses.

That's sort of an equal first together.

You can't separate one
from the other, right?

Because if your horse has got no well
being, how are you going to transmit well

being through your horse to a person?

But also, if we don't know some
things about the human well being,

we might inadvertently fall into
some holes, which we don't want to.

Then, of course, there is the well
being of yourself as the, as the

practitioner, because again, if you've
got no well being, unlikely that you'll

be able to transmit that to others,
no matter how many legs they have.

And then, of course, So that there
was two, there's now three, and then

the last one, of course, is that the,
the, the families, particularly when

you're dealing with children or young,
young people, when they go home,

what are you sending them home with?

Because one of the, one of
the real limitations, I think,

about equine assisted stuff
is that it's equine assisted.

When people leave that space They're
not taking a horse back to their living

room in their apartment building.

So how can they keep good things going?

That might be related to what the horse
has given them or more general things.

Shea Stewart is somebody who
knows that whole universe.

And so if you're an equine assisted
practitioner or somebody who Part X,

because you are a service user, i.

e.

a patient, if you like, or
both, many of us are both.

Shay Stewart is somebody you want
to know about and listen to, and you

want to go to her website and all of
that stuff will be available here.

So Shay, welcome back
and thank you for coming.

Shea Stewart: Hi, Rupert.

Thank you so much for having me back.

I always.

Love our conversations
and I'm happy to be here.

Rupert Isaacson: All right, so I very much
advise listeners to get a notebook out

because there are going to be some things
that Shay talks about that you might be

aware of and you might not be aware of
and that you perhaps need to be aware

of or be helpful if you're aware of and
also things that perhaps you have heard

of but you haven't heard well explained
like mitochondria, for example, important

thing, word we hear, what does it mean?

But let's start first with Shay, you're a
craniosacral therapist first and foremost,

that's where it sort of began with you.

What is that?

How is that helpful to horses and humans?

And how has that led you
on to these other areas?

Shea Stewart: Well so I've been
receiving craniosacral since.

1987 or 88 and it was

Rupert Isaacson: after the dinosaurs

Shea Stewart: shortly after that.

Yeah, not too long after that.

And this is before, you know,

Rupert Isaacson: amazing
for 3000 years old.

It must be that mitochondria stuff

Shea Stewart: because I focus
on my mitochondrial health.

Rupert Isaacson: All right.

Okay.

So you started as a patient
as somebody needing it.

Why?

Yes,

Shea Stewart: I, I got it.

And this was before massages
and chiropractic and all

that was really part of

Rupert Isaacson: it.

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: And my sister was a
professional ballet dancer and they

always received, you know, interesting
things with their body work.

And she turned me on to this
woman who did craniosacral.

And I went there because I had migraines.

And what I didn't realize was that
I was, that was, those were just

a symptom of a, a dysregulated
system and she, she helped all that.

And I was so drawn to that work that I
ended up learning how to do it myself.

And so I took some cranial classes
and then I decided to take an

advanced two year biodynamic course.

And one thing I don't know if
people are aware of is there are

two approaches to craniosacral.

There's biomechanical
and there's biodynamic

Rupert Isaacson: and

Shea Stewart: the both of them work.

So the grandfather of craniosacral
is named William Gardner Sutherland.

He was a osteopath student who saw
that the skull bones were meant to

breathe like gills of a fish, all
the different plates in the skull.

And so he spent his life
studying that, and he developed

both craniosacral modalities.

Incorporate his five principles of the,
of the craniosacral system, which is

Rupert Isaacson: what are those?

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: The, the flow of cerebral
spinal fluid the core link, meaning

that the, the dura is free floating
while it has, does have some attachments

and it, it moves independently with

Rupert Isaacson: the

Shea Stewart: spinal cord.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: So the five
principles of the craniosacral.

mechanism is what he calls them.

There's the cerebral spinal fluid flow,
the Dora, the core link, the the sutures,

the movement of the bones with it.

They're all joined together by sutures.

So they, they all have a motion.

So let's, The nervous system,
how it acts independently of

of this and

he, so it basically is a, is a,
an approach that works on the

nervous system through the flow of
the cerebral spinal fluid and the

movement of the bones and the tissues.

So there's a rhythm that that
these go and then later on in his.

His life, he found that there when he
was called to work on a dying man, he

felt that there was a presence in the
room that moved through the person.

And this, when he, he, he called this,
he was a, he was a Christian mystic.

He called this the breath of life,
which we now call primary respiration.

So, he had his 1st, 5 principles, and
then he had 4 more after that, which was,

which start with primary respiration.

The mutual field between practitioner
and client the relational

field is what he called it.

And the biomechanical approach their
entry point into the cranial sacral

system is through the cranial rhythmic
impulse, which is if you look at the

body as being like a ocean that's
contained within skin, there's different.

There's different waves of of movement.

There's the surface waves, which are just
like the ocean, which are a little faster.

And then, as you go deeper there,
the, the motions get slower.

So, the biomechanical approach, their
entry point into the system is, is

the faster surface cranial rhythmic
impulse, which is not really fast.

It's.

It's a impulse at 6 to 12
minutes per cycle, which is this

actually ironically is the same.

I don't know if it's ironic.

It's the same wave as the
geometric pulse of the earth.

And makes sense.

Yeah.

And that 6 minute cycle is also the,
the timing of the coherent breath.

So it's, it's a slow rhythm and then
the bow dynamic approach, they, we

focus on William Garner Sutherland's
later principles, which the entry

point is primary respiration,
which is the deep long tide, the

stabilizing rhythm of, of the body.

So it's like.

It's like the slow rhythm that
stabilizes and supports life.

CRI may come up in a session, but we,
we focus more on the slower rhythms.

So, that's mainly the difference.

But with this, we also look at
the embryo as our archetype.

So, when we're just a single cell post
fertilized egg, we, the, the fluids.

In the cell know our body is going
to be and these fluids have memory.

It's like a blueprint of us and and
this fluid has the memory of us.

So we access this the fluid body and the
person or the client, whatever the horse

accessing what we call the inner embryo,
which is the, the origins of our health.

And the fluid body, this is what got
me into quantum biology is, so in

the biodynamic world, we, we focus
on the fluid body and the rhythm,

rhythm of primary respiration and
quantum biology, it actually actually

explains what the fluid body is.

From a scientific point of view,

Rupert Isaacson: please go on.

What is quantum biology?

I'm actually googling
it as I ask you this.

Shea Stewart: Oh, you are.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

because it sounds intriguing.

Shea Stewart: So quantum biology
is basically the study of.

Mitochondrial health through
light, water, magnetism.

Those are the basic
principles of quantum biology.

It's the intersection of
quantum physics and biology.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

What I've got here is quantum biology
is the field of study that investigates

processes in living organisms that
cannot be accurately described

by the classical laws of physics.

This means that quantum theory has to be
applied to understand these processes.

Would you say that's fair or

Shea Stewart: not?

Really?

I mean, they can be explained.

There are people that are way smarter
in the field than I am because

it's, it's something that I've
just been studying the last year.

But it is a lot to do with the
way our mitochondria function.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: Protons, electrons.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

It's interesting too.

I've got.

It seems to go back to Schrodinger,
Schrodinger, who a lot of people

know about, know the name, but
they don't know who he was.

He was the guy who did
the experiment with light.

Is light a photon, i.

e.

a fixed thing, or is it a wave?

And he found out that it was
both because that argument

had been raging for centuries.

And he, he, he proved in an experiment
that you could trap a light wave in a very

Narrow thing that was visible to the naked
eye, and when you didn't look at it, it

was a wave, and when you looked at it,
or when something measured it, it was a

particle, and that therefore superposition
things could be different things at

once, like when you toss a coin, and
it's spinning in the air before it comes

down, it's both heads and tails, right?

It's, But both in potential and
then it's only when it hits the

ground and you observe it that you
see which one it is Very similar.

So i'm i'm interested now.

Let's let's ground this two things one.

Cranial sacral work when my son rowan
was at his most severe I cranial sacral

work and he couldn't stand Even the
gentlest attentions of the therapist

because it seemed to overwhelm him.

So, we waited till, we would
wait till Rona fallen asleep.

And then the cranial sacral person would.

Work on him very gently while
he slept in that deep sleep.

So, and then we'd take him home and
we do this about 11 o'clock at night.

Shows what you'll do as an autism
parent, you know, drive an hour in to

the town, hour out, you know, to do this.

There always was a
difference in him afterwards.

And then the, the second thing is
those people who know our work with

movement method know that one of
the things we do is sacral rocking.

That enhances not just oxytocin,
feeling good and connected and

communicative, but also your cerebral
spinal fluid flow, which of course

is good in all sorts of ways.

So, I, but I had not until I met you
run into terms like quantum biology

or living a circadian lifestyle or
quantum lifestyle as things that could

be beneficial for horses and humans.

And I'm going to get to explain those.

And then yeah, the, the experiences that.

We've had with the work that we
do, particularly with autism and

communication seems always to
be enhanced by sacral rocking.

So, and then one of the first
neuroscientists to endorse horseboy

method and movement method was
a guy called Robert Navio, Dr.

Robert Navio, who was the head
of the mitochondrial Institute

in.

University of California, San Diego, so
this brings us to this word mitochondria,

which the mighty chondria mighty anaconda
Brain could go other ways there But this

is a word that gets battered around like
cerebral spinal fluid one can sort of

picture it There's a fluid in the spine.

It goes up and down It has a bunch
of different functions that we could

go into but it's a biological thing.

It's there We know it's there, you know,
you can open someone's spine and there

it is you can open up their brain and
there it is Mitochondria is something

which I think many people hear the
word, don't really know what it means,

realize that it's important because more
and more people seem to talk about it,

and there are whole university chairs
based around it, and it seems to have

something to do with neuroscience.

So, here's a question for you.

You fell into this whole mitochondrial
thing through your adventure with cerebral

spinal fluid in a way, in this primary
Respiration that you're talking about.

What is mitochondria and why
should horsey people trying to

help other people know about it?

Shea Stewart: Well,

mitochondrial health is greatly not
looked at in our healthcare system,

yet I believe it's one of the most
important aspects of our biology.

Mitochondrial health and our fluid body,
I believe are the most important aspects.

So mitochondria are
actually, they're organelles.

That live inside each cell.

So every cell in our body has thousands
to millions of mitochondria or

yeah, mitochondria inside of them.

Rupert Isaacson: Little organs
doing stuff, telling the, telling

the, telling the cell to do stuff.

Shea Stewart: Yep, they, they are
known as the, as the energy makers,

like the, what's the, I can't think
of the term people use with it.

Basically, they make ATP, which is an
energy, but that's not all they do.

They they make CO2, they make
water, they make infrared light.

They make oxygen and they need
special things in order to do this.

And, and the most important thing
that they, they make is water.

It's a deuterium depleted
water, but mitochondria need

electrons in order to do this.

And they also need light frequencies
in order to function properly.

Rupert Isaacson: Just quickly, you
mentioned something called ATP, and I

went, ooh, what's that when it's at home?

So just for listeners, it's
chemical energy produced by the

mitochondria is, well, chemical
energy produced by the mitochondria

is stored in a small molecule.

Called

Aden phosphate, a TP.

Okay.

So it's like the battery story.

Okay.

Yep.

Got it.

Shea Stewart: Exactly.

A little semiconductor, a little battery.

Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm

.
Shea Stewart: So they,

Rupert Isaacson: okay, so the
mitochondria are, are these organelles

that make the cell function to do.

All these good things for our well being.

We need CO2 for things.

We need oxygen for things.

Infrared light.

What do we need infrared light for?

Shea Stewart: Well, to make heat.

Rupert Isaacson: Ah.

Shea Stewart: Is one of the things.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: That's what
infrared light is, is heat.

Rupert Isaacson: So,
thermoregulation, mitochondria.

Shea Stewart: Yep.

And that heat.

You're getting

Rupert Isaacson: too hot, too cold.

Shea Stewart: Yep, and that
heat that we make can actually

structure our internal water.

So, if you think about the water in
our body it, it surrounds everything.

It surrounds every protein, every cell.

It lines our blood vessels.

It lines our arteries.

Glycocalyx is a, is a form of water that,
that lines the arteries and blood vessels.

It's in our cerebral spinal fluid.

It's in our blood, our blood plasma.

Water is everywhere.

And this water is basically
the means of, of communication.

Of every biological function in our
body, and this water needs to be

in a structured state, which means
that it's in a coherent state.

So if you think about, if you want
to go the more quantum and get down

to what a water molecule is, oxygen
and two hydrogens, and, and these.

Always form an angle.

Bond angle is what it's called.

And when it's at a certain angle, can form
geometric patterns, geometric clusters,

and they, they structure together.

It's like a, it's like a
symphony playing together.

What happens if this water
is not structured, it becomes

what they call bulk water.

And bulk water is basically
inflammation in the body.

And every cell in our body needs a
negative charge that this water provides.

Rupert Isaacson: Why do
we need a negative charge?

Shea Stewart: Because we run
on a DC electrical current.

Because of the the electrical
current that's needed in our

bodies in order to function

Rupert Isaacson: the spark of life

Shea Stewart: Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: okay.

So Someone's listening to this going.

All right.

Well, you know, I'm shoveling shit right
now listening to Rue and Shay talk about

this mitochondria thing and you know, and
I've got you know, the kids who are coming

or I've got you know a group coming for
their equine assisted thing in 15 minutes.

Why should I care for my horse?

Well, about this mitochondrial thing.

And, and, okay, I can be aware of it.

But what is, what is my awareness of it?

Allow me to do, to be better
for my horse and for my human.

Shea Stewart: I think it's, I think
it's understanding our biology

better so we can be optimal.

Okay.

Because when we, when our mitochondria is,
is optimal, then we, we can think better.

We have we have a better ability to be
creative and, and not so dogmatic on

things, you know, we become more open.

We, the movement that you talked about,
that's one of the ways we also get

electrons that help our mitochondria.

We just become more.

We're just healthier all around
our mitochondria can funk can

actually just we don't notice a
dysfunction in our mitochondria until

it's dysfunctioning at about 70%.

So once we, we notice something
wrong, like my back pain

that I've been dealing with.

That's when, when, if you.

Boil everything down in the quantum world.

We believe that all diseases, all health
issues come down to a mitochondrial

dysfunction and our modern lifestyle is
dysfunctioning it at a high rate of speed.

Because of the light environment, we live
in the tech use the indoor life seeking.

We're always seeking comfort.

None of these do any are beneficial
to our mitochondrial health

and the same with our animals.

They're like canary in the coal
mines when it comes to mitochondrial

dysfunction or, or the things that
are dysfunctioning our mitochondria,

they're even more sensitive to it.

And some people are more
sensitive than others.

Women are more sensitive because
we need that energy to create life.

So that, in a sense, makes us more
sensitive to things that aren't

natural to our, our biology.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so what can I
do as an equine assisted practitioner

to optimise the mitochondrial
health first of my horses?

Because that's who I'm going to be working
through to these humans that come through.

Then we'll get to the humans.

How can I optimise my mitochond
How do I get quantum horses?

Shea Stewart: Quantum horses.

Rupert Isaacson: Loads more horses.

That's what we all do.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

So

things that the things in our
life that mitochondria love are

native electromagnetic frequencies.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Why?

Shea Stewart: Because that's what

Rupert Isaacson: that's
plugging into the earth.

That's plugging into it.

The

Shea Stewart: only electromagnetic
frequency that our biology understands

is that from the sun and that from
the earth, the Schumann resonance,

the geometric magnetic pulse, the
light frequencies from the sun.

This is connecting to nature.

So, our horses, they also
rely on a circadian rhythm.

Circadian rhythm is not just, oh, I'm up
during the day and I'm asleep at night.

It's every, every single cell in our
body relies on a circadian rhythm.

The cells in our kidneys, the cells in
our lungs, the cells in our liver, and

when, when there's a dysfunction, a lot
of times it's because the circadian rhythm

of that actual body part can be off.

And usually it's a body part that
has more mitochondria, so we have

more mitochondria and our heart and
our brain and women and the eggs.

So a lot of our dysfunctions.

Or, you know, cardiovascular
diseases stuff things like

dementia and things like that.

So, for horses,

what we can do from a quantum perspective
to keep our healthy, our horses healthy

and living in a proper circadian
lifestyle would be outside and sunrise.

No fly masks on.

Ideally,

the sun should also touch their fur.

So fly sheet or blankets, you know,
some horses need the warmth, but it

is nice for them to get full spectrum
sun at some point morning is good.

Solar noon is good.

No barn lights at night.

Anytime a light is turned on
after the sun goes down, it's

a, it's a melatonin disruptor.

It basically stops the
production of melatonin.

It stops the release of melatonin
that's been producing all day from

serotonin.

So when we have a light on in the
barn, not only does that disrupt

that the processes that the body's
going through in order to shut down,

to go to sleep, to heal and repair.

But a lot of these lights also have
that flicker that we talked about.

It's, it's not something
that you can see visibly.

But all led lights have this and the
flicker and led light is different

from the flicker from the old
incandescent bulbs because it actually

turns on and then all the way off,
all the way on, all the way off.

And it happens at like 150 times a second.

So we don't see it, but you can, you
can actually put your, if you have

an iPhone, you can put it on slow
motion mode and video your lights.

And see if they have flicker and what
this flicker and I've seen it in barns

where I can feel it now because I'm so.

You know, that's the thing is once you
become aware of this stuff, you sense

it sooner and I went to a barn and The
horse that I was working on was I could

tell he was stressed at the time He
was at the time rack He kept stretching

and yawning and stretching and yawning,
but not like a good stretch or yawn.

It just seems stressed And the
lights were I could feel the

stress coming from the light.

So I videoed them and the
flicker was just insane.

So I had her turn the barn
lights out and it was daylight.

You don't need lights in the
barn during the day when there's.

Light coming in and horse immediately
relaxed all that behavior stopped.

He took a deep breath and was like, okay,

Rupert Isaacson: it's very
interesting what you say.

Because with autism, one of the no
negative sensory triggers that Dr.

Temple Grandin first turned me
on to when I was a young autism.

Dad was fluorescent strip
lights and and led lights.

And to get rid of them in the home
environment as much as possible.

And we did and it definitely worked.

For the same reasons
that you talked about.

And I noticed, you know, frequently
when I'm going into therapy barns

and they've got these massive
fluorescent strip lights on.

It's like, dude, this is not
gonna, this is not gonna work well.

Shea Stewart: But

Rupert Isaacson: devil's advocate.

We are in Northern England, or Norway,
or Upper Peninsula Michigan, and it's

getting dark at, you know, two o'clock
in the afternoon or whatever, and the

kids need to come for their sessions.

You've got to have lights on.

And so, there's going to be
a whole evening session that

you, you just can't avoid.

So, What do we do to make sure
that that isn't detrimental?

Shea Stewart: Well, there are
companies that are making circadian

friendly non flicker light bulbs.

There's a whole Are they

Rupert Isaacson: doing them on the
big enough scale that you could

light an arena with them or a barn?

Shea Stewart: I know there was somebody
in my applied quantum biology course

I took who was designing lights.

He was in the UK, I think.

And he worked for a
light designing company.

I could ask him if, if they

Rupert Isaacson: But what would your,
what would your Let's say, you know,

I'm a stress barn owner and I haven't
got time to contact this dude in England

for something he might or might not have
access to and that I might or might not

be able to access because I'm in Canada.

I don't know.

What can I do, given that
it's a non ideal situation?

What can I do to mitigate
those effects as best I can?

Shea Stewart: Well,

Rupert Isaacson: in those dark,
that dark time of the year.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

If you, if you can buy better
bulbs, look for some places you

can still buy incandescent bulbs,
incandescent bulbs are better because.

They have the infrared in them.

That's why they stopped making them
because of the energy production,

the energy coming from them.

So now we have LED bulbs that are
like one spectrum of blue, 450

nanometers or something of blue.

And our, our biology does not understand
that spectrum of light because we,

our biology does not understand.

Anything that's isolate any of those
light spectrums that are isolated because

the sun is like Almost 50 percent red
and infrared, the light that comes from

the sun and so when we take a bulb,
that's got an isolated spectrum of blue.

The body doesn't understand that.

So things 1 of the main
things that happen.

There's lots of studies on PubMed
about this, but the, the 1st thing

that happens is our glucose spikes.

And our bodies are, are very
intelligent, intelligent, and it spikes

as a protection against that light.

So when we're in the barn at night and
we're under led lights, this, these

are things that are just happening.

It happens with horses too, cause
they're, they're mammals and

they have mitochondria as well.

So

one, one thing that I did in my house
before I started replacing all the bulbs

is I bought that red vinyl tape you
use to put on like a broken tail light.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: And I covered, I
put that tape over all the little

nightlights, the refrigerator
lights anything that I could take.

So you end up

Rupert Isaacson: with
a bunch of red light.

Shea Stewart: Yes.

So technically you could do that in
a barn if you need the lights, even

if you don't want to do all of them,
you could do some of them or you

Rupert Isaacson: need some
bright light so you can see

Shea Stewart: how

Rupert Isaacson: to do some things.

Yeah,

Shea Stewart: the other thing you
could do is you could add red lights.

So, barn, barn aisles, arenas,
those are going to be LED or

fluorescent lights, which is that.

That isolated spectrum of blue that's
causing they're actually, they've

actually traced diabetes to this and,
and you can, you can look up the studies,

but it's hard because we, you know,

since the invention of lights, we
completely changed our lifestyle.

It's like, okay, we can be up all night
now, but we're in, but our biology

is, has not cut up, caught up to that.

So.

When what you could do in a barn or an
arena is incorporate some red lights

just to help diffuse that isolated blue.

You're not going to fix the
flicker with that, though.

You have to get special
flicker free bulbs.

Rupert Isaacson: How easy is to get?

Shea Stewart: There's a I could
I could send you a list of

companies that sell them.

Rupert Isaacson: OK, so if
I'm a barn owner, should I be

looking at flicker free bulbs?

Shea Stewart: Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: and
taping some stuff red.

Shea Stewart: Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: and having some
red lights, which will maybe give

me a warmer light anyway in my barn.

I mean, one of the things
that's often difficult in those

barns, it can feel very cold.

And then the weather outside is
cold and then the light is cold.

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: If you can find
incandescent bulbs, those are the best.

I can still find those in the U.

S.

I know some countries are
completely banned, but

Rupert Isaacson: Something which I found
helpful was because When I'm doing,

say, an equine assisted session in the
evening, I don't actually need very bright

lights for that because I'm not jumping.

I'm not needing to see my way
exactly into a fence, you know,

where dull light, you know, could
be dangerous or something like that.

So I, in some cases, even
worked to candlelight.

And that sort of thing, which in a, in
an arena you can, speaking a small arena,

you really can, or even switching off
half the lights and only having part

of the lights on and switching them on.

What I started experimenting with
sometimes was switching them on down

the end of the arena, but working
a little bit in the less lip bit of

the arena so that we weren't fully.

I've sort of played around with these
things and it's, it's, it's, I would say

I've observed good effects with the kids.

What I didn't necessarily look to was the
effects with the horses because, you know,

my understanding of equine well being.

What I've grown up with is so much
about fitness and muscle building

and brain development and keeping
them interested, you know, and

obviously giving them a naturalistic
lifestyle as much as possible.

Not everybody can and I'm aware of this.

I don't want to shame people who
can't, like we've got a really

good horse boy and movement method
practice in the middle of Dublin.

And they serve, it's a
really important service.

They're serving urban kids who would
never get access to this normally.

You think, Oh, Ireland,
everyone's got horses, but

actually Dublin's anywhere else.

And they don't have the facilities.

They do what they can.

Inventive, and they also send their
horses out regularly and rotate them

out to the country for long breaks in
fields for a few weeks and then bring.

So, you know, they're doing their
equine well being as, you know,

as well as they possibly can.

But with the best will in the world,
we know that not everybody can

have the state of Montana as you
know, their backyard sort of thing.

We all

Shea Stewart: can't have a thousand
acres for our horses to run free on.

Indeed.

Indeed.

Yeah, you do the best you can.

Do the best you can.

I had that too of my barn
that I had in California.

Rupert Isaacson: So, so how
did you get around that when

you were running your barn?

Shea Stewart: When, when they
when they were, they were in

small, lived in small paddocks.

So, I just got them
out as much as I could.

I made their turnouts interesting.

You know, with like a
new branch for them to

Rupert Isaacson: like, how did you

Shea Stewart: play with, or, you
know, barrels, you know, to go

around, you know, things to keep
their brain interest and engaged.

I made sure they're living space.

They were next to horses.

They liked, you know, it's no
fun living in such a tight space

with somebody you don't like.

So.

I'm

Rupert Isaacson: sure a
lot of people are laughing.

Shea Stewart: I made sure

Rupert Isaacson: it's in our life.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

I also made sure they always had
something, you know, to chew on some

hay or twigs or, you know, whatever.

But yeah, we do the best we can with.

With what we have and there are
things we can't always control how

much space we have and but we can
control the lighting environment.

And, and the other non native
EMFs, we can control that.

Rupert Isaacson: What's an EMF?

Shea Stewart: An EMF is
an electromagnetic field.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: And it's basically
can be thought of as a light

wave, like a non visible.

Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

Shea Stewart: Because we have, you
know, there's visible light waves

and there's non visible light waves.

The other thing about the lighting
is lighting at night from a

quantum health perspective should
come from lower areas, not above.

So, if you want to think
about mimicking the sun,

it's solar noon, the sun is,
you know, above our heads, every

color of the rainbow is out,
it's solar noon from the sun.

And each different light spectrum
tells our body to do different things.

When we're inside an artificial light,
so the sun, the color is always changing

as it, as it goes across the sky.

It comes up, it's, when it's
rising, it's red, infrared,

it's a real rich blend of red.

And then when it hits about 10 degrees,
that's when UVA comes out and UVA tells

our we have aromatic amino acids that
live in the back of our eyes and there's

a super chiasmotic nucleus that goes
from our eye to our hypothalamus and

the, these different spectrums tell.

Tell these things to
do different processes.

So UVA rise tells the tryptophan,
the, which is an aromatic amino acid

to turn, to catalyze into serotonin,
which then at night that catalyzes

into melatonin when darkness comes.

So if you think about natural light,
it's doing all kinds of things.

Artificial light is one spectrum and
it's a spectrum we don't understand.

And if you have it on in the barn
all the time, I mean, luckily, most

barns have, do get natural light that
comes in and kind of diffuses it.

But if you, if you think about

light coming from up above at
night, it's not, it's another

strike against what's natural.

So it should be a light
that's below our eye levels.

That's it.

That's a more diffused amber tone.

Rupert Isaacson: I'm picturing a
riding arena with wall sconces with

being thrown up like you might see
in a beautiful equestrian display.

At some big equestrian show like Cavalia
that you've paid money to go see.

And it's interesting how the lights in
those sorts of shows, of course, are

always very warm and are very seldom.

Bright top down.

Yeah, it was to create the magical feel,
you know, or when you go to a romantic

restaurant, you know, you don't want
this Intimidation like lighting up all

the pores on your face in like every
little blemish you've got you want.

Shea Stewart: Yeah

Rupert Isaacson: candlelight
to kind of you know

Shea Stewart: Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: the best in you And
it's so interesting that the therapeutic

environments that we work in are not
lit like that and I'm thinking back

to when I was a boy although in our
stable yard, yeah, we had electricity.

There was no, like, big light that
came on when you went out into

the stable yard, like, the sort of
stuff that's just so ubiquitous now.

I remember when those came in, you know,
and we put one in, and it was awful.

Awful.

And people got very excited.

Oh, yes, great.

Because we can really see
what we're doing at night now.

And I remember thinking,
Oh, yeah, but it's so harsh.

It hurts.

Yeah, all that we went out with
torches, or we went out with

actually kerosene lanterns.

Yeah.

But of course, there's how to, you
know, the problem of, well, what if you

dropped it and set fire to your plan?

There were some limitations to those.

But nonetheless, things felt more human.

Okay, so

if this type of lighting, for
example, Oh, just one, one last

thing about people keeping their
horses in an ideal situations.

I was just doing a, this
is a tip for people.

If, if you're in this position, I saw
something really good in Rotterdam.

I was just in very urban situation
in the Netherlands a few weeks ago.

And These guys, they've
got no, no grazing at all.

They've got a covered arena, and
then they've got an area of maybe 20

feet around it, which they fenced off
that the horses can wander around in.

And that's it.

But the horses have free access to
wander in and out, which is interesting.

And one of the first things they do in
the morning, so the horses stand on sort

of wood chippings, but the wood chippings
often get churned up and a bit muddy.

And so there's dry areas, wet
areas, this sort of thing.

And the first thing which the person
coming in to sort of do the horses in

the morning did was go cut a bunch of
willow because of course it's, it's The

Netherlands so everything is even in even
urban there's water and willows kind of

everywhere young ones and just cut cut
cut cut cut cut and then Chuck that in

for the horses to graze on nibble on
browse on and of course as we know willow

is also medicinal It's also deals with
pain deals with it and several times in

the day They were going out and cutting
stuff like this and sort of throwing

it in there to enrich the environment
And then the other thing which we were

doing was a lot of what we call crazy
time, which is just flat out encouraged

interactive play with the horses,
effectively free jumping in groups but

changing the obstacles every two minutes
to keep the horses like, Ooh, a new thing.

Ooh, you know, and and then making
these into the therapy sessions

themselves so that instead of trying
to think oh shit I've got to do the

crazy time before the kids come.

It's like no no No We're gonna do
that with with the kids and keep

them safe while we do it and teach
them horsemanship and teach them math

because we're gonna Measure out the
distances and the heights and da da

da and then we're gonna do physics.

We're gonna do speed by getting distance
over time You know, timing them.

We know how many meters
it is down that long side.

How fast are they going?

How fast can you run down that thing?

And so we found ways to
incorporate this kind of well

being into this non ideal area.

I just wanted to throw that in
there because, you know, a lot of

us are dealing with less than ideal.

Shea Stewart: I also, I know
some, somebody who feeds in

the winter feeds her horse.

Just whatever is around in nature.

So that's the other thing is we, we end
up feeding them hays that are imported.

Sometimes you have to, but I would
encourage people to feed try to get

grass hays that are grown as local
as possible or as close to your

latitude as possible because the,
our mitochondria looks at food.

As an electron, a light source.

Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

Shea Stewart: So in, in the
quantum world, eating out of season

and the non local food is, can
actually be considered a toxin.

So like if you live in Germany, you
should not be eating a pineapple

was imported from Costa Rica.

In December,

because you're, you're sending your body
the wrong light signaling and it's the

same with horses, try to get them food.

That's as local as.

Seasonal is possible.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

It's, it's interesting.

We go out, we we're in a big
apple growing area in this bit of

Germany that we're in right now.

A lot of the apples go un
harvested and a lot of them in

our area are heirloom there.

Old, old varieties.

Mm-hmm . And so a lot, a lot of the
orchards aren't even tended anymore.

Oh.

And so one of the things I do
with the kids that come in the

winter is we go and we collect
apples and pears that have fallen.

And fill up great wheelbarrows with them.

And it's cool, because we get to
see that the wild boar have also

been there before us, and they've
been, you know, chewing it up.

So you learn a lot.

And then we have throwing matches to throw
them into the areas where the horses are.

You can throw them, you can
bounce one off the roof.

You can, and I've got horses
that you can bounce them off

the horse and they don't care.

It's like, can you get one
off Hidalgo's butt, you know?

And they love it, of course.

And, but of course, what we're doing
is giving the horses brows that they

would normally have access to that.

Maybe they might not because I don't
happen to own that, that orchard.

I can't tell you that.

And one can have a lot of
fun with this kind of thing.

It's interesting that you talk about
things as a source of light and

electrical energy, food, and so on.

I think this is something that's really
good to draw people's attention to.

That everything does come down
to light at the end of the day.

And that's a really hard thing to get
your head around, is that, that's not

light, that's an apple, or that's not
light, that's a doughnut, you know or

that's a thing that's dense and solid
and absorbs light, or reflects light off

it perhaps, but it's not itself light.

But of course, everything
kind of is light.

Can you explain to layman's terms
why sort of everything is light?

In a way that doesn't make them
just think, oh, this is weird.

Shea Stewart: Yeah well, everything,
you can look at it as a frequency.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Everything has an electrical
frequency, that is true.

You can plug a battery
into a potato, for example.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, exactly.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: Even, yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: So what you're
saying is some frequencies are

good for you and some are not.

Shea Stewart: Correct.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: And our,
and this is something

This is just not, not something
that's, it's, it's been studied a lot.

Robert O.

Becker, John Ott, there's all kinds
of scientists that have studied this.

Unfortunately, it's not been adapted
into our healthcare system because To

improve mitochondrial function, there's
not really a profit and, and things for

us to do, like get outside, ditch your
sunglasses, turn the Wi Fi off at night,

you know, all those things are free.

These are free things we can do
to improve mitochondrial function.

And there, and we look

at mitochondria can, they can be looked
at as our sixth sense, because they.

They sense that the electromagnetic fields
around us, they sense the lights and they,

they do things with that information.

It's all information that,
that our bodies receiving to.

To do special things, and one of the
most important things that our body

does with that information is make
internal water, our internal fluid

body, and then there are things that
prevent our mitochondria from doing

that, and those are the non native EMS,

Rupert Isaacson: the
electromagnetic fields.

Shea Stewart: The ones that are
not, are man made are, are causing

mitochondrial damage and preventing
our fluid body, preventing our

mitochondria from making the water it
needs, the water that our cells need.

Our internal water is, is actually
more important than the water we drink.

And it's like, you can look at our
fluid body or our internal water as.

As a part of our anatomy, it's an
anatomical structure, so to speak,

that gets highly ignored, yet it's
very important to, to have that inner

hydration for everything to be optimal.

Rupert Isaacson: Why might we want
to turn off the Wi Fi at night?

Shea Stewart: Well, so, like I said
earlier, our, the only electromagnetic

field that our body recognizes is
comes from the sun and the earth and

there's a spectrum like the Schumann
resonance is, is anywhere from 7.

83 to 20 hertz, you know, fluctuates
and our alpha wave of our brain is 7.

83 hertz.

And so we, you know, those, that's
a resonance that we're supposed

to be part of the geomagnetic
pulse, the mayor wave is, is 0.

1 Hertz, which is that six.

Cycles per minute thing that I talked
about earlier, the, the motion of our

cranial rhythmic impulse, the motion
that our, our cerebral spinal fluid, the,

the, the measurement of that wave going
up down our spine is 7 cycles a minute.

Rupert Isaacson: By the way, for
listeners, it's called a Schumann

Resonance, not because the German composer
Schumann wrote his beautiful music to

this resonance, because it sounds like it
ought to be, oh, a resonance by Schumann.

That sounds very nice.

It's actually after Otto, another
German, Otto Schumann or Wiener Fried

Schumann who first studied the theoretical
aspects of the global resonance as the

earth ionosphere wave guide system known
today as the Schumann res resonance.

And in 1952 to 1954, Schumann
together with Aman Konig attempted

to measure the resident frequencies.

But it was not until measurements
were made by some called.

Beiser and Wagner in 1960 to 1962,
the adequate analysis techniques were

available to extract the resonance
information from the background

noise since Then there has been
an increasing interest in Schumann

resonances in a variety of fields.

So yeah, it's, this is, this goes
back to early 20th century science.

It's not something new and it's not
invented by hippies like Rupert.

Yeah.

Or sadly, by the composer Schumann.

But what's interesting is
what you're talking about.

They're slowing things down effectively.

That Something like 5G, it's fast, right?

It's, that's the whole point.

It's

Shea Stewart: supposed to be.

Yeah.

Lemme Yeah, I, I was just looking
for my building biology notes.

I don't know if I can find
them this quick, but basically

wifi is like what, 2.5

to five gigahertz.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Shea Stewart: So a Hertz.

Is one vibration

per second?

Is it one vibration per
second or per minute?

That's what I wanted.

A minute

Rupert Isaacson: sounds very slow.

I'm looking it up with you.

So it's quite good listeners.

We're not pretending to be gurus here.

Yeah, I mean.

We need to consult our notes too.

So, what, how fast, what speed?

Is

one cycle per second

Shea Stewart: per second,
one vibration per second.

So a gigahertz.

And this is why I wanted to look at
my building biology notes because I

have a oh, I know where I have it.

It's like 1 billion vibrations per second.

Rupert Isaacson: That's quite fast.

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

So

if you think about that
vibration on our biology,

Rupert Isaacson: I see.

Shea Stewart: When we're the
fastest the fastest one we're

used to is maybe up to 100 Hertz,

Rupert Isaacson: right?

Shea Stewart: Probably probably but the

Rupert Isaacson: earth and the Sun it's
roughly in the six to seven range, right?

And

Yeah, the alpha brainwaves state
which is the sort of meditative

state yes Eight to twelve.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, about seven.

It's the same as a human resonant.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

Okay.

And then the beta brainwave,
which is our sort of cheerful.

All right.

All right, Shay.

Cup of tea, cup of tea show.

How do you like your tea?

Milk, no sugar.

Lovely jubbly.

That sort of functional,
cheerful going through life.

That's our seems to be our
fastest functional one between 12

and 35 hertz.

It's a big range, but it can also.

Be it's your your attention's on
but there can be anxiety involved

with that one alpha brainwave
very relaxed Passive attention.

That's 8 to 12 theta brainwave.

Do you put meditation 4 to 8 hertz?

Now we're going down below

Shea Stewart: Yeah

Rupert Isaacson: The Schumann
resonance, deeply relaxed, inwardly

focused, and then the delta, which is

Shea Stewart: 0.

Rupert Isaacson: to 4, which is
rapid eye movement sleep, right?

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and that, that 0.

1 Hertz, which is the same motion
of our cerebral spinal fluid.

Right,

Rupert Isaacson: okay.

Shea Stewart: So the, yeah, those
are, those are the frequencies.

Now

Rupert Isaacson: talk to us about
cerebral spinal fluid and frequencies,

because I know cerebral spinal fluid

a couple of angles.

One is that the more of it you have,
isosacral rocking is a good thing

for that because it makes you produce
more of it, your stem cells that

replace the dead cells of your heart
and brain, which are all neurons, get

replaced more efficiently, a bit like a
factory conveyor belt operating better.

So if you've got more cerebral spinal
fluid, that's just all happening better.

The cerebral spinal fluid is also a crash.

Sort of not helmet, but a shock absorber
between your skull and your brain.

That's quite useful for those of us that
like to fall off horses, and, Also, it

can, it makes your spine more elastic,
so it's to do with your biological age,

you know, you, you, you feel appear
and actually sort of are biologically

younger when you have more of it.

And of course, within that,
there's, there's also the theory

that around the pineal gland, you
were talking about melatonin being

whether serotonin, the pineal
gland, among other things, you know.

changes our serotonin into melatonin.

Sera gets us up in the morning.

Mel puts us to bed at night.

That's very nice.

But if there's enough cerebral spinal
fluid pressing around the pineal gland

it can cause that melatonin to go
through another molecular shift and

become dimethyltryptamine through an
electrical charge, through friction of

little crystals being rubbed together
in the pineal gland, pushed by that.

Fluid from the outside and of course
dimethyltryptamine DMT is strong

hallucinogen and makes us see God and
angels and things That's all rather nice

There's much more to cerebral spinal
fluid than that and liquid intelligence

these frequencies To slow things
down or to speed things up if the

cerebral spinal fluid is one of the
intelligent liquids in our bodies

helping mitochondria Do its thing.

Well, how does a slow frequency
Beneficially affect of light or whatever

Back to the lighting in the barn or
the 5G that might be floating about How

does slowing that down, so changing the
lighting, switching off the Wi Fi at

night Help the cerebral spinal fluid do
its thing better for the mitochondria

And how does speeding it up not help?

Shea Stewart: So

Rupert Isaacson: in verse,
please Shakespearean verse,

Shea Stewart: I'll try my best to do that.

Rupert Isaacson: There was a
young man from Australia, sorry,

Shea Stewart: if you break it
down even more quantum and go and

think about the water in our body,

water has been proven now that it carries
information, it holds, it stores memory.

It transmits information that's what
cerebral spinal fluid does as well.

It's like a liquid, liquid
crystalline structure

and

we need our, one of like the rocking
the, the sacral rocking it does.

It, it does enhance the cerebral
spinal fluid flow, but another

thing that that's doing is it's.

Is.

Helping the mitochondria produce
electrons is one of the ways we

get electrons is through movement,

Rupert Isaacson: okay?

Shea Stewart: And

Rupert Isaacson: yeah, like a
dynamo battery friction produces.

Yeah movement.

Shea Stewart: Yeah

Rupert Isaacson: Okay,

Shea Stewart: and then the other ways
we get electrons is through light

frequencies So if these frequencies are
too fast from Wi Fi I finally found my

building biologist notes Okay, later Wi Fi

5G.

Yeah, Wi Fi is good in
the gigahertz range range.

Mobile phones are in the gigahertz range.

So when we're when we're getting
bombarded with those pulses.

It's preventing our mitochondria from
making the internal water we need.

It's also just, which that will then
disrupt the flow of cerebral spinal fluid.

It destructures the water, because
remember this, our water, our

internal water needs to be in
a structured, coherent state,

which means it, it has geometric
patterning within the water molecule.

And, and when that, when we get
bombarded with these electromagnetic

fields that are not native.

It destructures that water, so

Rupert Isaacson: it loses it,
smashes up the crystalline.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, they, they lose their
ability to communicate with that carries

Rupert Isaacson: the information

Shea Stewart: to

Rupert Isaacson: do its thing.

Shea Stewart: It's like a tuning fork.

If you hit a tuning fork, the
tuning fork that has that same

vibration will, will vibrate.

Rupert Isaacson: Mm.

Shea Stewart: Or if you have a that's
kind of what the water's doing as it,

and it goes through our, our body way
faster than biochemistry can move.

So, you can also think of
it as a symphony orchestra.

And all of a sudden, you know,
the clarinet, the reed broke and

it's squeaking instead of playing.

And then the guy's freaking out.

So he can't play anymore.

And there's this tune that's,
that doesn't flow, right.

It's going to disrupt the whole
sound coming from that orchestra.

That's, that's, what's happening.

And, and our body when we're,
we're getting exposed to these

things and, and we're all exposed
to them because it's everywhere.

All we can do is try to try
to mitigate it as best we can.

And there it's when, when our body is not
able to make the internal water, we need

the cells lose that positive charge
and then then health declines.

How is

Rupert Isaacson: that linked
to inflammation and autoimmune?

Shea Stewart: Well, that's
where it all starts.

Inflammation is bulk water.

Inflammation is water that
no longer has a structure.

Rupert Isaacson: Ah, so if you
disrupt the crystalline structure, of

the water that is carrying all this
biological information around and is

electrically charged in a certain way
to put that information into action.

If you disrupt that with stuff
that's too fast, it becomes bulk

water and builds up rather than flowing
through, and that's inflammation.

And then that triggers autoimmune
stuff as well as chronic pain,

mitochondrial disorders, fibromyalgia.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and yeah,
fibromyalgia, MS and my one of my

quantum biology groups, there's a lot of
people that are very sick in these and

just by addressing their mitochondria
health, they're getting better.

So I know a couple of people that
have diagnosed MS and it's, they don't

have any signs of it anymore just by.

They had to make huge changes.

I mean, that a lot of people, you
know, might not be able to, but just

by in, in fibromyalgia and I mean,
all kinds of autoimmune things.

It's, it's just a
mitochondrial dysfunction.

So we, we need to learn ways to.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

So if we're working in environments where.

There's just a ton of shit lighting and
adding to that maybe you've got some

power lines nearby and adding to that,
maybe you've got 5G floating about

and adding to that, you've got this
and adding to that, you've got that,

you can expect some knock on effects.

In yourself for non well being,
for your horses in non well being,

and for the clients that you're
working with in non well being.

That I get.

So, we looked at some
potential mitigating solutions.

You said you could change the lighting,
you could make it redder, you could make

it more natural, you could make it more
from the ground up, not from the top down.

You said you could switch
off the Wi Fi at night.

Shea Stewart: The Wi Fi is huge
and, and then, and especially for

children, if what about lights,

Rupert Isaacson: what about security
lights that come on and off and

that sort of thing through, let's
say it's in the barn, you know, and

there's lights coming on and off, or

Shea Stewart: I would
change them to red bulbs.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Okay.

So if you feel that you've got to have a
security light, change it to a red bulb.

Yeah.

At least if that's coming on and off.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, you
can easily get red bulbs.

Some people even get lighting
reptile lighting from the pet stores.

Rupert Isaacson: Ooh.

Shea Stewart: Cause those have,
you can get different spectrums.

Oh

Rupert Isaacson: yeah, the ones
that you use to hatch chickens.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, those, and then
there's UV lights and yeah, there's

all kinds of lights for lizards.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

And those are okay after
dark if they come on?

Shea Stewart: Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I mean, you don't want them on.

You want your lights low at night.

You don't want these, you know, bright

blinding lights and, and people, I
hear people complain that they, they

don't see well, you know, they, they,
they don't have a good night vision.

And that's a direct symptom of.

Having too many lights on at night,
and not getting, and wearing sunglasses

during the day, so your, your pupils are
losing that ability to, to fully dilate

or fully contract so you can see properly.

Rupert Isaacson: One of the other things
which we often encourage people to do

with, say, horseboy movement method is
work outside, and the reason For that

is just fewer bad sensory triggers,
of course, in nature, because we're an

organism who have designed for nature.

So do we want to be in an arena, which
is relatively sterile, or if possible,

do we want to be out on planet Earth,
where, you know, we're supposed to

be, and also we want the child or the.

person to respond to the
natural world because that

puts your brain on high alert.

We want them walking places across
fields or on woodland paths where they

have to think a bit about where they
put their feet because that creates

the protein BDNF in the brain, brain
derived neurotrophic factor, increases

cognitive function, blah, blah, blah.

But what I hadn't thought about it
from a point of view before is of

course if one goes outside then one
can get away from some of these Not

so good what you're calling EMFs.

So if one is working with one's clients
constantly in arena, client comes

in, in the arena, Bobob, there's your
session, 10 minute break for a cup of

tea, another client comes in for the
arena, Bobob, before you know it you've

look up and you've spent 10 hours
in an arena and so have your horses.

Is another reason to get out of
the arena for your work so that

you can help your mitochondria?

Shea Stewart: Oh, yeah, you need
to be out in that natural light

Rupert Isaacson: It's something
because you know, we think oh, yeah

natural light vitamin d people get
that but It's a relatively new concept.

I think for a lot of people this idea.

It'll help your mitochondria So what
again just because this is new for people.

I know for you.

This is you've gone where you
live in that rabbit hole, but

You've got very long ears.

Now they're very fetching.

The For people who are still
getting to grips with that, why is

being outside going to help their
mitochondria, and therefore help them

with chronic pain, autoimmune, blah,
blah, blah, and their horses too, skin

conditions, dah, dah, dah, you know,
why is the outside going to help?

Shea Stewart: Because
we're circadian animals.

Okay.

We, we need to be in sync with the sun,
the light from the sun, the different

rays from the sun, the different
light spectrums, and we need to be

in sync with the darkness at night.

And whenever we move away from that,
we're disrupting our circadian rhythm.

And when that's disrupted,
that's when health declines.

There's, there's been a lot
of studies on shift workers.

And there are things that even
shift workers can do with mitigating

disrupting the circadian rhythm.

It just depends on, you know,
what their shift work is.

But for people, another thing you can
do, of course, this doesn't help horses.

If you're working in barns at night,
you can get blue blocking glasses.

Rupert Isaacson: Blue blocking glasses.

Interesting.

Tell us.

Shea Stewart: So blue
light blocking glasses.

There's a lot of different
companies that make them.

You just have to make
sure that they test them.

So you can't go to Walmart and get
a pair of blue blocking readers.

They have to be like the, the
blue, the daytime blue blocking

glasses are yellow lenses.

The nighttime blue blocking
glasses are red lenses.

And You can also get orange lenses, lenses
for like in the morning or in the evening.

If you still have a couple hours before
you want to start winding down for bed

the light that comes through our
eyes, so I mentioned before, we have

a nucleus that goes from our eye
to our hypothalamus and that's that

basically sets our circadian clock.

The suprachiasmatic nucleus.

And we also have aromatic amino acids.

We have non visual photoreceptors
in our eyes, but also all over

our body, all over our skin.

So our, that's why sunglasses are not
good, because Your eyes and your skin

need to be on the same circadian rhythm.

Rupert Isaacson: Right,

right.

No, this makes perfect sense.

And, and this brings me back to
something else I wanted to highlight

with your point about circadian rhythms.

I, you need your proper sleep cycles.

I, you need darkness, whether you're
a horse or whether you're a human or

the human that you're serving that,
let's say we're giving advice to people

to what to do when they can go home,

cerebral spinal fluid.

I just want to draw
people's attention to this.

It's If you sleep well at night, it's
like a dishwasher for your brain,

will flush waste material out of your
brain and they can now look at this on

scans, it's not, it's all quite recent,
type it into Google, it's, it's, it's,

whatever, it's well researched, it's,
it's, it's, it's nothing, woo woo.

The glymphatics,

Shea Stewart: the glymphatics.

Rupert Isaacson: Right, so the National
Institute of Health, you know, has got

a whole thing on it now and, but the
role of age, sleep, and cerebral spinal

fluid, melatonin plaques in the brain,
needing to, you know, Flush those things

out that one can't do that if one's
not in a proper circadian rhythm It's

the cerebral spinal fluid that's doing
that that cerebral spinal fluid has

to be as you say positively structured
and charged and the Mitochondria in

there has to be optimal but we can
do all of that by kind of changing

our lighting and being outside more

Shea Stewart: Yeah, yeah, because our,
that, that cleaning that our cerebral

spinal fluid does for our brain at
night is our cerebral spinal fluid is

on a circadian rhythm and it relies on
melatonin to be released and melatonin

is not only made in our pineal, pineal
gland, it's also made in our mitochondria.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay,

Shea Stewart: and

and it's being made all day long
and then it's the night the darkness

at night that tells it to Release

Rupert Isaacson: got it.

Shea Stewart: And if we don't
have that darkness at night

the melatonin does not release.

Therefore, the cerebral spinal
fluid doesn't do its job

of cleaning out the brain.

The glymphatic system gets sluggish.

It's the same with eating at night.

At night, our body starts to shut down
so it can go into all the healing and

repair that it needs to do when we sleep.

That's what, that's what sleep is for us.

And if we eat past dark, that's when
people tend to get a lot of GI problems

because Their body is Is trying to
shut down and things get the digestion

actually gets slower at night,

Rupert Isaacson: right?

I'm also something else that just occurred
to me some of us, you know You do if you

do get your circadian rhythm broken at
night and you go for a daytime nap that

can also help reset this For I was just
looking at something from Johns Hopkins

Medical Institute them saying that
yes, you can you can get this cerebral

spinal fluid flush of your brain thing
happening with a a sort of 30 to 90

minute nap in the middle of the day.

But I do believe that it's still
so we should do that by the way.

So go nap everybody now
pull over and go have a nap.

But it's the nighttime sleep.

That's the big one though, right?

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And there are things that
we can do that are easy.

So And the, the complaint I hear is
from parents who have kids or kids

go to bed and that's when they get
their little me time or whatever.

And they're most people's wind down time.

Now, nowadays is scrolling
on their phone, scrolling on

their computer or watching TV.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Shea Stewart: And the thing that we
haven't talked about, we talked about

the lights, but we didn't talk about the
lights on the screens and the, the, all

these tech devices, TVs, computers, phones
are backlit with this intense blue light.

And that's going to disrupt
your circadian rhythm.

And it's also, it also has a flicker.

And it's also

is, can cause eye damage.

People get afraid of the sun for
eye diseases, but it's not the sun.

It's, it's the text screens
and the lights on at night.

And there, there's a program, a software
program called Iris Tech that you can

download on your computer, and it not only
gets rid of the flicker, but it changes

color based on what time of day it is.

So, at night, the computer looks red.

So, like, right now, mine's
kind of an ambery color.

And then your cell phones, you
can put I have mine where it's

I'm having a bad tech day,
but I can, I can put mine.

I don't know if you can see.

Oh,

Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

You're holding it up.

Yeah.

Her cell phone is looking pretty red.

Okay.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And this is what I do once
it starts to get dark.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: But I also wear
glasses that block the blue.

Okay.

The first, when I first
started learning this.

It just made so much sense to me because
of my history in the cranial world.

But the first thing I did was I
bought some red blue blocking glasses.

And I put those on at night because I
sat down, watched TV and I put on those

blue blocking glasses and like within an
hour, I was ready to go to bed 30 minutes.

Maybe I was tired and I slept.

And that morning I woke up when
the sun came up and I was like,

completely rested.

I wasn't tired.

I didn't have to drag my ass
out of bed and go drink coffee.

I was just up and I felt good.

And the second thing I incorporated was
getting outside to watch the sun rise.

And those two things have
been life changing for me.

And they're easy to do.

Rupert Isaacson: Do you
do that even in winter?

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: When the
sun is rising very early?

Sorry, even in summer when
the sun is rising very early?

Shea Stewart: Yep.

Rupert Isaacson: Do you
then go back to bed?

Nope.

Okay.

So that means you have to make
sure that you got to sleep.

Because if you go to, in mid
summer, if you go to sleep at

sunset, That could be where I live.

That's 10 o'clock at night
and you got up with the dawn.

That's 4am.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, it's that's the
thing when you live the further away

you get from the equator, the more
unstable your light environment is.

So you do have to mitigate those things.

I'm a little closer to the equator,
so it's a little more stable, but

I do try to at least be out when UVA
is rising and UVA is all year round,

no matter where you are on the planet,
the, the light that you don't get in

the more northern latitudes is UVB.

Rupert Isaacson: What is UVB?

Shea Stewart: UVB is the light
that basically when it, it touches

our skin, it tells the cholesterol
in our skin to make vitamin D.

It's not really a vitamin, it's a hormone.

But UVB is what makes D, and it's also
what builds the microbiome in our gut.

Rupert Isaacson: So if we
live in the more northerly

latitudes, what do we do to Well,

Shea Stewart: you don't, you don't
need, if you're, if you're an uncoupled

haplotype, you don't really need.

Rupert Isaacson: If you're a what?

Shea Stewart: A haplotype.

So you're either.

Everybody's either a coupled
haplotype or an uncoupled haplotype.

That's

Rupert Isaacson: a very personal

Shea Stewart: thing to say.

I know.

Uncoupled haplotypes are basically people
who come from more northern latitudes.

Rupert Isaacson: What does that mean?

Shea Stewart: Coupled.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Shea Stewart: It's just how your mind
It's how to your mitochondria make energy.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: So a coupled haplotype would
be someone from an equatorial country.

They've got more melanin in their skin
and their mitochondria needs more UV

light to make energy than ours does.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: Like look at
some of the strongest people

on the planet are Sherpas.

They're, they're not too far from the
equator and they live in high elevations.

So they're getting a lot of
UV and a lot of magnetism.

So they're really, they're
very strong people.

And when you're uncoupled, that just
means you're from a more northern

latitude, uncoupled haplotypes.

use UV and cold.

So in the wintertime, your vitamin D that
you make in the summertime, if you're

getting sun on your skin without sun on
bare skin with no lotions or anything and

you're building your vitamin D, it, it,
it stores in your body for the winter.

So you get up to a certain amount and
then you store it, but you also can

make, they're, they're finding that
there, there's some new studies that

they're finding that cold exposure helps
your body with the vitamin D as well.

It, it, I don't know if it
helps your body make it or if it

helps your body store it better.

But in the winter time, we don't really,
if you're, if you're from a more northern

latitude, you don't need to mitigate UVB.

Although some people do get those lights.

You can get a spurty lamp or an EMR tech.

They have those are lights that people
get that have the different spectrums in

them and, and some people do use those.

in the winter but you don't really
have to because you want to think what,

what is natural for your mitochondria,
what's natural for where you're from.

And where you currently live, and that
would be maybe getting more sleep in

the winter and doing more cold exposure.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

I'm just reading here.

Good health and immune function
can be at risk in winter.

However, the cold exposure that
coincides with the nadir, the lowest

point in seasonal blood serum.

Vitamin D might compensate by
stimulating mitochondrial production

of ultraviolet light inside the cell,
thus activating vitamin D production

inside brown fat and other cells.

This is what cold exposure can do.

Interesting.

Yeah,

Shea Stewart: well, cold exposure
tells your mitochondria to

produce UV light, which is heat.

Rupert Isaacson: I see to warm up.

Right.

Got it.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Also
fills you with endorphins.

Shea Stewart: It can
release some endorphins.

Yeah.

And you have to be careful
with cold exposure.

I mean, I don't agree with the
whole Huberman lab 47 degrees

or 11 minutes a week, because

everybody's different, everybody's.

N equals one is different.

So for some people that would put
you in a complete cortisol stress.

Technically, anything that's
below our body temperature

is considered cold exposure.

So you could, if it's 60 degrees,
you could take a walk outside for an

hour and that would be cold exposure.

Rupert Isaacson: Not if you're
wearing an Arctic fleece, right?

I mean, how would you get that
cold, what would you wear at 60

degrees to get cold exposure?

Shea Stewart: I would probably, I
mean, I take walks when it's 35,

40 and I'll wear a pair of shorts
And a sweatshirt and tennis shoes.

Rupert Isaacson: And how
long will that walk be?

By the way, 3540 she
means, um, Fahrenheit.

Shea Stewart: Fahrenheit, yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Jolly chilly
if you're a Celsius person.

That's, that's just about
like two or three degrees.

Yeah.

Celsius, yeah.

Shea Stewart: But I'm cold adapted, so.

And I would need at least 40 minutes of
that to get a, a true cold thermogenic.

Rupert Isaacson: a howling
wind with horizontal sleet?

Shea Stewart: No, I'm not that crazy.

Rupert Isaacson: Well, because again, you,
I mean, just so listeners understand, I'm

talking to you from winter in Germany.

You're talking from winter in Texas,
which is a Mediterranean winter.

It's not that you can't get very cold
in Texas, but it blows in and it blows

out and it doesn't last very long.

The cold here, it's different.

So we're in the sort of North Atlantic
weather systems, mid continental.

So it can get.

Damn cold.

And it's cold, nasty, like, you
know, howling wind rain that'll

cut through you like a knife.

Should I go out in my t
shirt and shorts in that?

Shea Stewart: No, I wouldn't.

You don't, you don't know how I'm going

Rupert Isaacson: to get my cold exposure.

I am outside in that all day.

Shea Stewart: I mean, yeah,
you're going out and you're cold

and, and it's, and that's okay.

I mean, that's, it's okay to be cold.

That's what I'm saying.

It's good for your mitochondria.

You can go out in that and bundle up,
but you're still getting cold, right?

Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.

Well, of course, even like today I was
on horseback and the wind was Doing his

thing and you know, just the front of your
face is getting a proper scrape, you know,

it's you know, the, the, the ice thing is
just going all across, you know, and that,

Shea Stewart: yeah, that's the best
place to get cold is your face.

Is that right?

Okay.

Why is

Rupert Isaacson: that?

Shea Stewart: It's, it's has to do.

I don't remember exactly.

It has to do with what's being stimulated
with the cold on your forehead.

Rupert Isaacson: Prefrontal
cortex chilling or something

that brain brain freeze.

I

Shea Stewart: think because that
triggers some receptors that help

your mitochondria produce the light.

So some people who can't do cold
exposure, they do face dunks and ice.

Rupert Isaacson: Oh, interesting.

So I've just looked it up, of course.

Cold water therapy, skin health.

Promotes collagen production, apparently.

Counteracting stress factors.

So, actually, it's good for
your wrinkles and your skin

firmness, cold water immersion.

But also, lymphatic drainage.

So, I guess that's what, taking,
getting rid of inflammation.

So, okay.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, it also it it
helps your bulk water structure.

Rupert Isaacson: I see.

Shea Stewart: That's
another thing that cold,

Rupert Isaacson: but here's so here's
the question So you don't agree with

the human huberman labs stuff of these?

Are you talking about ice baths there?

You talking about like stuff?

So some people we know people who are
great ice bath evangelists and but they

would put their hand on their heart
and say Rupert, I feel so much better,

and I'm so much healthier, and I'm
so much stronger with my ice baths.

And then I know other people who'll
hold up a crucifix and say get away

from me with your satanic ice bath.

Who's right?

Shea Stewart: Well, that's
that's what I'm saying.

Is everybody

Rupert Isaacson: right?

Because it depends on your metabolism.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, everybody's
n equals one is different.

Everybody's mitochondrial
health is in a different place.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: And you can't

Rupert Isaacson: How do you know if
an ice bath is good for you or not?

You just have to try and
see what your reaction is.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

If, if it's too stressful, don't do it.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

So now what if your ice bath coach
is like, no, no, you can do it.

Should you do it?

I

Shea Stewart: would get a
different ice bath coach.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: Because I don't
think, I mean, I'm looking

at mitochondrial function.

If there's somebody who's encouraging
you and you really want to do it.

Yeah.

But is, is dipping down and
getting up within one minute.

beneficial.

I don't think it's, it's probably
beneficial to your willpower.

You know what, what you, what you learn
that you can handle, which is huge.

Our, our emotional our
emotions are huge around that.

And that has a lot that can
have a big effect on our

health and our cellular health.

But if you want to do cold thermogenesis
that improves mitochondrial function,

you have to have a longer exposure.

But the temperature depends
on your n equals one.

It depends on your mitochondrial health.

If you're, if you have autoimmune
disease and you've got some other

health problems because of that,
I wouldn't go jump in an ice bath.

I would start really slow because what
you don't want is your cortisol to spike.

Our, our cortisol is.

Spikes in the morning to get us up.

That's why going outside and getting
the sun is good because it helps

tamper with the cortisol and it, it
helps your body go, okay, we're up.

Now other things need to take over.

But if your cortisol is always
spiked, then you're going

to get chronic inflammation.

And if you're, if you're forcing yourself,

Rupert Isaacson: cortisol
brings down inflammation.

It's one of its jobs, right?

Is to bring down inflammation.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, but it.

It's it's, it's, it's not
supposed to be there all the time.

Rupert Isaacson: Too much medicine.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Too much.

Yeah.

So if you're doing, if you're doing
ice baths and it's, it's, it's too much

cortisol, then you need to raise the
temperature or do it a different way.

Rupert Isaacson: One of the things which
I find difficult about an ice bath is

that you go in there and you don't move.

And for me, when I get that kind
of shock to the system, my body

automatically wants to move.

So, for example, if I were to go into
the cold ocean or a cold river, I

would be able to splash, move, go,
jump around, you know, sort of thing.

Which brings my cortisol down, of course.

Yeah.

There's something to me, which is cortisol
y, stress y about feeling confined in that

cold exposure suffering state.

But yet I know other people who love it.

Shea Stewart: Oh yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

There seems to be a
real temperament thing.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And, and you get addicted to it.

We get addicted to the cold.

And once you start using the
sun more, you get addicted.

We're, we're meant to
become addicted to the sun.

And we tend, we also get addicted
to the cold and addicted.

I don't mean that in a.

Bad way.

It's just our body seeks that because
it's healthy for us, but yeah, the

cold, I don't like, I've actually hurt
my back worse doing ice baths and, and

I've, I've learned that it was because
it was too cold and I was in a confined

state, so I was just sitting there.

You know, like frozen.

So, sometimes in the winter,

I'll get in my pool
where I can move around.

Rupert Isaacson: How long
will you do that for?

Shea Stewart: It depends on how cold
it is, but usually around 20 minutes.

Rupert Isaacson: So, I guess, back
to, I'm a therapeutic or equine

assisted person, it's winter.

Do I need to make sure I've got some time
where I pull the rugs off the horses?

And let their body temperatures drop,
let them get full vitamin D exposure

to the sun before I put the blankets
back on for the rest of the day.

You know, it's interesting.

I grew up doing a lot
of hunting, fox hunting.

Whatever.

Please don't kill me.

I gave it up.

But I still go out now with the
artificial type of hounds, where we don't

actually hassle a live animal anymore.

But of course, that's done in the winter.

And often on horses that are clipped,
because being super athletic while

they're out there, you don't want them
overheating and You know, the sweat

falling up and give it, you know,
chafing them and blah, blah, blah.

So they're partially shaved
or fully shaved on the body.

And they're out three to six hours
like that working in the winter.

in all weathers and they love it and
they seem to do it till they're about

30 years old and come back in happy.

And then of course you rug them up at
night particularly if they're clipped,

obviously they don't have the winter coat.

My horses now, the ones I'm,
I'm not hunting them because I'm

not in an area where I do that,
I let them have a winter coat.

But I don't want too much winter
coat because again, I'm doing

quite a lot of athletic work.

I don't want them sweating too
much in the winter and they live

outside anyway, so I do rug them.

But as much as possible, I
do try to pull the rugs off.

Now, I was pulling the rugs off as much
as possible in the daytime, just to let

them roll, get muddy, get, you know, the
itches out, just because they like it.

But you are now saying that Or
suggesting or are you, that there could

be a more mitochondrial based liquid
intelligence based structure of the

intelligent water in the body based
need for that exposure, particularly

in, in, in, in the short Sundays of
winter to just make sure that they get

it on their skin for their optimal Yes.

Mitochondrial health.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Shea Stewart: Pull the, pull the.

Rugs off in the winter and give
them, give them, think of it as light

therapy, give them light therapy.

I mean, look at what's become so
popular right now is red light therapy,

but red light comes from the sun.

You can just go out in the sun.

And if you're, if you're afraid of the UV.

If you just go out in the morning and
in the evening is pure red and infrared.

There is no UV UV UV comes out, you
know, once the sun starts rising

and the only UV that is has actually
been shown to be damaging is UVB

and, but the studies that they did
on that, they did it in isolation.

They isolated the UVB.

They didn't mix it with, okay.

Red and infrared from the sun.

But anyway,

red light getting out in the sun is
the same as doing red light therapy.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: And actually
old story, get outta that

Rupert Isaacson: arena.

Shea Stewart: Yep.

Get out as much as you can.

My, I have a dog that's.

Well, gosh, she's probably 19

Rupert Isaacson: now,

Shea Stewart: and she has good
eyesight, good hearing, and she

started to get really itchy,
like scratching all the time.

And this was about the time that I started
my whole Quantum shift with my lifestyle

and I was going outside every morning and
my, my dog would come with me and we'd

go out and I'd have my coffee outside
and she would come out and sit with me.

She falls, she's with me everywhere.

And after about a week, she
completely stopped scratching now.

Rupert Isaacson: Go ahead.

Sorry, then I've got a thought.

Shea Stewart: So that was that I
firmly believe it was the the healing

light from the Sun

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Now you did earlier on about an
hour ago You mentioned in summer not

using a flysheet or a fly mask I've
got a couple of horses which if I do

that the flies will eat them alive
literally tear their flesh and can't

not put a fly sheet on those horses
and then the same for the fly mask.

They'll just suffer so
terribly, like really suffer.

Other horses seem to sell through it.

What do I do in that situation?

And

Shea Stewart: the

Rupert Isaacson: other question
is, can you get the same

beneficial effects from moonlight?

Shea Stewart: No, no, if

Rupert Isaacson: I pull the rug off at
night in the summer, for example, no,

it has to be not getting reflected.

Nice UV light for their mitochondria.

So how do I help that horse out?

Because everyone's like this.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, my
horse had an eye problem.

So I fly masked my horse.

I was I actually have a friend who
was talking to somebody who makes

fly masks, and they were, were going
to test them to see if they could

make some that, that don't filter
out the UV because that's some of

the beneficial light that they need.

You could do like leave it off in the
morning before the flies get bad, just put

it on later, you know, give them breaks.

That's what I tell people if you can,
you know, I know people are busy and but

if you can give them breaks, give them a
couple hours of that morning sun and that

evening sun when the flies are not so bad.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.

I'm thinking about, you know, horses
that I have to put on far pastures.

and might have to ignore
for a few days, you know.

And they're happy, they're
roaming about there, but I'm

gonna leave, I'm gonna leave that.

Fly sheet on and that fly mask

Shea Stewart: chunks

Rupert Isaacson: of the missing,
you know, from the flies.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

I mean, you have to, yeah, you have
to use your, the things I wonder

is what is it about that horse?

That's attract attracting flies.

It's in one of my classes, they
were talking about how people

who have gotten bitten by sharks.

Or even people who get bitten
by mosquitoes are actually

leaking too much biophotons.

So the, the, the bio photons
that we produce the light that we

produce, we hold on to that light.

And that's that creates
energy in our system.

But when we're sick or compromised that.

We're not able to hold on to that light,
so it starts to fly off of us and they

can actually see that in certain imaging.

There's actually a whole science behind
there's a group of biofield scientists

who are measuring our biofields and so
I wonder about horses because I had one

that, you know, my herd of five, one of
them got completely taken eaten alive by

bugs, but the other one's not so much.

And, and he, he was a horse that
he came from the primrose farm.

So he probably, you
know, didn't have a good.

Development in utero, I would think that
like his whole system was just weaker.

So, I wonder about horses that how some
horses or or even even things like E.

P.

M.

that protozoa that that can
cause a neurological problems.

You can have a herd of 20 horses in
a field and only 1 of them will get

affected by that.

So, when I see that.

It's like, yeah, you want to keep them
comfortable and you want them to not get

eaten up because it's miserable for them.

And then what do you, how do you, how do
you give them the light that they need to,

to optimize their mitochondrial function?

And, and why are they?

Getting, why are, are those things
getting attracted to them more?

And so

Rupert Isaacson: it's a really,
it's a really interesting question.

We've asked ourselves this, this
particular two horses in question.

The Lusitano's one was bred in Portugal.

One was bred in North Carolina.

I kept them in Texas.

They had no problem.

And it's buggy in Texas, as you know,
you live in Texas in the summertime.

I moved here to Germany,
which is a cooler climate.

I mean, it gets hot in the summer, but
nothing like as hot, and not for as long.

High bug activity, different types of bug.

Brought seven horses, two
suffered, two did not.

But the suffering only showed
up after about four years.

They were grand and then they sort of
weren't and obviously like all horse

owners I've tried this and I've tried
that but I find that the, the main

thing is just to make sure that, you
know, I keep them covered enough.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and that, that
timing would make sense if it's some kind

of mitochondrial dysfunction, because
I think I mentioned earlier it, they

are dysfunctional, they can function.

I can never, I can never say the
sentence correctly, mitochondria.

Not show any signs.

The body will not show any signs of
dysfunction until the mitochondria

is operating at a 70 percent deficit.

It's like the electric transport chain
that keeps them keeps that energy

production gets doesn't function right.

And when that slows down,
cellular function declines.

So over and it takes time.

So it could be.

Something about their environment.

Rupert Isaacson: Yes, absolutely.

One of the things I need to look, I'm
going to be looking at is selenium.

As you know, that's a whole
tricky area with horses.

Because,

Shea Stewart: you

Rupert Isaacson: know, too much
for too little, blah, blah, blah.

But I think there might be some
deficiency there in our area.

But it's interesting.

I'm just going to dive down the rabbit
hole now of, of When summer comes around

again of looking at how, well, how can
I boost their mitochondrial health?

And I just going to be very
interested to see, you know,

Shea Stewart: Yeah, because

Rupert Isaacson: they

Shea Stewart: make vitamin D as
well, but it's a little different.

It, it, it comes on onto their fur
and in their skin, and then they

release a serum and then they lick it.

You know, they lick,
they groom each other.

One of the things they're doing
is they're getting vitamin D.

Rupert Isaacson: Is that so?

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and dogs
will, and cats will lick, get

the vitamin D that they produced.

Rupert Isaacson: I see.

So

Shea Stewart: that's another reason
why they need that direct sunlight.

Rupert Isaacson: And the
chance to groom each other.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, yep.

Rupert Isaacson: Even when they pull
each other's manes out, really annoying.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

It's

Rupert Isaacson: like, guys,
why do you have to do that?

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Mutual, mutual grooming is, that's
one thing that is not very well

known is that's one source of, that's
one way they get their vitamin D.

Rupert Isaacson: Is that so?

Okay.

And what's really interesting, both those
horses really go for the mutual grooming.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And I always encourage it,

Rupert Isaacson: I never discourage it.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, yeah, they're
probably lacking and that's the thing

is the quantum quantum health is studied
in the human world It's not part of

centralized mainstream medicine like
if you go your primary care physician

and You complain about being electro
sensitive because you're suffering

from a mitochondrial dysfunction.

I don't think they'll
know what to do with that.

Rupert Isaacson: No, it's
so interesting, isn't it?

Yeah, there's a big disconnect between,
say, the Mitochondrial Institute at

University of California, which is huge,
which is one of the first things to

get behind us, and an average internal
medicine doctor who you would think would

be exposed to all that Knowledge and not
not at all like not neuroscience either.

Yeah,

Shea Stewart: it's not like they get
like even eye doctors and I follow

a woman who's a quantum eye doctor.

And it's, it's not like doctors get
a text message every time there's a

new study that comes out, it has to
be, and they're all overworked anyway.

Rupert Isaacson: They have to be nerds
that want to nerd out on that stuff.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, or, or yeah, they
have to really, and the same with

our animals, there's really not much.

There, I think there's a woman in the
UK, I can't remember her name right now,

but she's, she's starting to incorporate
more quantum health and large animals.

And well,

Rupert Isaacson: that was my next
question is where are the quantum vets?

And I'm going to hop
on Google in a minute.

I also Googled while you were
talking about bio photo photon loss.

Yeah.

I was like losing the
light when you're sick.

It's like, is that a thing?

And I looked it up just
now It's totally a thing.

I found Just a bazillion articles from
various medical journals and again, jobs,

Johns Hopkins popped up and it just buh,
So these things are being well studied.

These are not just fringe issues.

However, let's talk about something
which sounds like a fringe issue.

We're approaching the two hour mark.

There's going to be more.

I'm going to want to ask, but I think
we will have to come back again.

It's because our brains
will be a bit blown.

You mentioned earlier.

Something about trying to ground maybe
using a grounding sheet to help mitigate

some of the negative effects of being
bombarded by too much of these other

electromagnetic fields, but that some of
them can malfunction and actually make you

charge something called dirty electricity,
dirty electricity when it's at home,

Shea Stewart: Dirty electricity.

Now, even a building biologist
will say it's a building

Rupert Isaacson: biologist.

Shea Stewart: Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: but a biologist
who comes in and sort of assesses

your building, your, your, your home
environment or your office environment.

Shea Stewart: Yes, they assess
it for the different frequencies.

Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.

Okay.

Shea Stewart: One of the things they
can test for is dirty electricity

Rupert Isaacson: or

Shea Stewart: electricity
is, is it's complicated.

But it's basically if there's faulty,
a faulty wire if your wires are not

coded with I can't remember what it
is, anything that's got a dual motor.

Like an air conditioning or a pool
pump or refrigerator, these, these

things can, can emit dirty electricity
and you can actually get a filter.

They say not to get the plug in
filters for your plugs, because that

could scatter the dirty electricity
more that you want to get a whole

house filter for your breaker box.

They are expensive.

But then, even then, you have to make
sure you're not getting dirty electricity

from the power grid coming to your house.

Rupert Isaacson: So you make sure of that

Shea Stewart: get it tested
by a building biologist.

They can test that.

And all I did, I Googled building
biologists near me and I found somebody

and she came out and tested everything.

And so

Rupert Isaacson: Geiger counters or what?

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

These little different meters that
measure like radio frequencies and

microwaves and radiation from wifi.

It's called

Rupert Isaacson: go ahead.

Sorry.

Shea Stewart: So

when we ground on the earth,
we're gathering electrons.

You can also ground by touching trees.

And I'm testing the grounding by touching
horses, even if you have shoes on,

I'm doing my own little
case study on that.

And I have found that sometimes I
can ground, or sometimes I'm grounded

just by touching them, even if I
have shoes on, and sometimes I'm not.

And that could be my, how,
how well hydrated I am.

But so basically that gives us electrons
and our mitochondria need Like electrons

and are if we don't have enough electrons.

Our our body tries to find
him wherever we can get them.

It's like a mother holding her sick baby.

She's giving her baby electrons.

By doing that we can steal electrons
from other people if we're not

functioning optimally, or we
can get our electrons stolen.

And

Rupert Isaacson: sounds

Shea Stewart: like

Rupert Isaacson: vampires.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

I mean, it's like, have you
ever been around somebody and

then was exhausted afterwards?

Rupert Isaacson: How are
they stealing my electrons?

Shea Stewart: They're, they're
mitochondria sense that.

And we have what's called a biofield.

And that's a real thing too.

And it's, it's about
three feet off our body.

Right.

This is well studied.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that can grab, you

Rupert Isaacson: know, just would that,
would that be somebody who's not producing

enough electrons and they're like just
trying to get it from wherever they can.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, people who never
get electrons, which a lot of it,

a lot of us are electron deficient.

If we're living an indoor

Rupert Isaacson: vampires, people
who live electron deficient lives.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, don't even realize it.

Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.

If you're less likely to be an energy
vampire, if they live their life outside.

Shea Stewart: Yep.

Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.

So energy bound prism is a thing.

Shea Stewart: Yep.

And if you're if your circadian
rhythm is off, you're not

getting the electrons you need.

So you're going to be Constantly
trying to steal them for everywhere,

but going outside and grounding
is a great way to get them.

And then, so now there's these grounding
devices that we can use, like grounding

sheets that you mentioned earlier, but if
you're plugging the sheet into the wall.

Because they'll, they'll plug into the
ground of your, of your electricity,

if you plug it into the wall and you
have dirty electricity, that dirty

electricity is looking for a place
to ground and it's going to ground

right on you on the grounding sheet.

So, if you, if you have a grounding
sheet, don't plug it into the wall,

get one of those little stakes you
can plug into the earth outside.

And a little cord you can run through your
window and, and make sure you don't have

any cables buried around where you put the
stake, because the same thing can happen.

So, the best place would be
by a tree, if you have that.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, I'm just
checking again for listeners, the woo

woo factor, is dirty electricity real?

Turns out it is.

I'm looking at an article in Nature, which
is obviously one of the big scientific

journals, says the term dirty electricity
refers to the electromagnetic energy

flowing along a conductor that deviates
from a pure 50 to 60 hertz sine wave.

The, what we think of as that woo
woo wave that goes like that, not

woo woo, but I made that noise to
denote that my, my finger making this

nice harmonious wave, and has both
harmonic and transient properties.

Okay, so basically, power
surges erratic spikes in energy,

stuff that isn't working.

Properly, as you said, perhaps
sometimes with microwaves and things

although I do use microwaves a lot.

Hey, that's very convenient.

I

Shea Stewart: do too.

I use a microwave and I
just don't stand by it.

Right.

We tend to stand in front and
watch the seconds count down.

Rupert Isaacson: That's true.

So

Shea Stewart: I, I purposefully
like move away and go do something

else because being standing in front
of them, you're just getting that.

Rupert Isaacson: Getting cooked.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: You know, my way
of grounding, what I do, of course,

is I spend as much time outside as
I can with my feet on the ground.

Or sometimes if the weather is conducive,
my whole body, I will starfish.

On any given piece of grass I can find.

And I'll do it in winter
on a ground sheet.

And I'll do it, I do that with the kids
that come to us from some of the schools

that send, you know, because it's like,
you know, they're getting no chance.

And the other thing which I'll do a lot
is take my shoes off, even in winter.

And I'll say, let's get Get muddy.

It's okay.

We won't die because we're also going
to dry our feet off soon and put nice

woolly socks on again Why don't we
and it's it's so interesting how this

seems to bring instant joy But I I'm
understanding it now from a mitochondrial

light Intelligent liquid point of view
now, which is very interesting so of

course, you know one of the in horse by
method that one of the best things we can

ever do is camps and You know, where we
see the biggest changes happen in kids

and families is when we go away, we camp,
we take the horses, we camp, it's like

the journey we did in Mongolia, but not
as difficult, but it's quite basic, and

people are sleeping on the ground and
walking around on the ground and being

outside in nature all day and we tend
to see The charm is, is if it's a three

night camp, that third night, the waking
up after that third night seems to bring

a massive metabolic and brain change.

This has been beginning to
give me insights into why.

So again.

If I'm an equine assisted
practitioner, what am I learning here?

I'm learning that if I pay attention
to mitochondria, I might find

good solutions for my horses.

I might find good
solutions for my clients.

I might find good solutions for myself.

And the further I go into this,
what, what makes good mitochondria?

Well, it seems nature does.

Light, natural light, you know,
back, back to getting a bit

cold sometimes, being outside.

Back to what Temple Grandin told
me, you know, go outside, go

outside, go outside, let them move.

Isn't it interesting how we can
break down all of these things that

really just tell us, lads, your
environment is out there on the planet.

In here, in front of this screen.

Don't know how many times I've got
to tell you, but you're an organism.

You need a habitat.

It ain't here.

It's not in this tank.

It's out there.

And, feeling a bit shit?

It's because you're a zoo animal.

Get out there.

Into your habitat.

But, if we're raised in the zoo
habitats, we don't know this, do we?

Shea Stewart: No, we don't.

And we're not taught this.

And we, we are meant to be
grounded 24 hours a day.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

Shea Stewart: And how
often are we getting that?

Rupert Isaacson: You know, the best
I've ever felt is on long journeys in

nature, camping, living with Bushmen.

us on the ground.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, I used to go on wild
camping trips and I looking back, I always

remember it was really hard to integrate,
integrate back into the society.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, the other thing
that grounding does, I didn't

mention is our, our blood cells.

Our blood cells travel, you know, through
our body in a vortex shape, and the cells

actually have that negative charge, so
that means they push against each other.

And if we don't get grounding,
we don't get that charge.

The blood cells start to clump
together and they call, they

actually call it stacking.

So the cells start to stack and they've
done, there's been some studies on

this where they took someone, you know,
they drew blood, looked at it through

a microscope, took him out to ground.

And the one study that I recently read,
she was out there 10 minutes, bare feet.

It was on a beach.

So you're going to get.

More when you're at the ocean, it
came back and her, they drew blood,

looked at her blood cells and all,
and they had that nice charge.

They were completely different.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

As always, the answers to the complicated
questions seem to be quite simple.

Shea Stewart: Yes.

Nature does not lie.

Rupert Isaacson: Isn't it interesting
how we'd also rather go to a store

and spend money on a product than just
go outside and take our shoes off?

It's

Shea Stewart: I know, that's the thing.

We've got all these products
now when we can just go outside.

We've got the red light,
well we can just go outside.

We've got the grounding stuff,
or we can just go outside.

And I think that's why kids do so well
with horses, especially if they're

living an indoor lifestyle, because
they're getting, they're getting the

grounding, they're touching the animal,
they're getting the electrons, they're

getting the different rays of sunlight.

So there's, and there's
science behind all of this.

And I encourage people to read it
like if you're worried about eye

diseases or skin cancers, read,
read the studies that are out there.

It's, it's, it's not it's, it's the
indoor life that's causing these problems.

It's the artificial light.

We've been part of nature, you know,
as long as How long have humans been

around and a lot of these diseases,

Rupert Isaacson: if you, if it's
hominids that are not sapiens

sapiens, it goes into the millions.

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Millions.

Yeah.

Cause it's, it's

Rupert Isaacson: our species is, they
think 300, 000, but we're just the

bottom end of a long chain of other ones.

Yeah.

Shea Stewart: Mammals.

How long have we been mammals?

I should say, cause

Rupert Isaacson: Since, I think,
the Jurassic, the first mammals

appear, as far as I know.

Shea Stewart: Actually, didn't we Or is

Rupert Isaacson: it even Triassic?

Shea Stewart: So, as long as there's
been mammals, we've had mitochondria,

and, and our mitochondria is designed to

Rupert Isaacson: 225 million
years, and it is the late Triassic,

even before the Jurassic, wow.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, I've actually,

I've, I've seen graphs
of health decline that

matched lighting environment

matched the increase in wifi and all
that, like my phone, I don't have

the wifi on on my phone and I have,
I turned some little thing off so it

won't, it won't attach to 5g towers.

And I don't use Bluetooth because
that's the other thing that's even

like the worst of all of them.

Like those, yeah, those blue tooth.

earbuds, don't use them.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Why not

Shea Stewart: get the tube ones?

Because Bluetooth is another
electromagnetic field.

And there's been studies on that where
it's, it's degrading the melanin in

your ear and things like tinnitus and
all kinds of stuff they're finding

linked to those Bluetooth earbuds.

Rupert Isaacson: What if you've got
Bluetooth in your, you're listening to

you're mucking out your You're dancing
or you're mucking out your, your stools

to a Bluetooth speaker off your phone?

Shea Stewart: I would hardwire it.

I know I'm taking all the fun away,
especially if you like tech gadgets.

Rupert Isaacson: How
would you hardwire it?

You'd, you'd, you'd plug
a speaker into the phone?

Shea Stewart: Yeah, you
can do like an auxiliary.

Rupert Isaacson: Mm hmm.

Shea Stewart: I've got an
auxiliary cord and that's what

I plug my phone into my car.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: So I don't use Bluetooth.

And, and that made a big difference
in how I felt because I drive a lot.

Rupert Isaacson: And

Shea Stewart: I always crack a window
to let the light come in because

that's the other thing we didn't
talk about is, is windows in a, in

a, because they're energy efficient,
they're blocking out all the red light.

But if you just crack it a little bit.

It's like, imagine the light is,
is an ocean outside, and you crack

a little bit, that water's going
to come in and fill the room.

That's what the outdoor light will do.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you
need ventilation not just for

oxygen, you need it for light.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and there are,
there's a company, I think it's

called Tech Wellness, they, they
sell those ear, ear pods that are

attached with a tube to your phone.

So you're not using the Bluetooth.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay,

good to know.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, anything,
anything, any smart device.

I've gone back to Ethernet
and hardwiring things.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's
tricky because, you know,

we all live on our phones.

We have to live on our phones.

We, we, you know, I'm checking
for the next appointment.

We know when I'm out there, it's
handy that I can be connected.

So I can do my emails and make
a business call from the saddle.

You know, it's good outside, but

Shea Stewart: just don't
keep your phone on your body.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: I

Rupert Isaacson: mean, where
can I, where can I keep it if

I'm, if it's not on my body?

Shea Stewart: That, well, you know,
what you can do is put it in airplane

mode when you're not using it and that
at least will prevent you from being,

getting that radiation from the phone.

Rupert Isaacson: So for example, if you,
you're a parent, you've got young kids,

you've got to be on call, you can't.

You don't have the luxury
of switching off anymore.

You, you know, if someone gives
you a call about your kids,

you've got to be there to take it.

Work calls, blah, blah, blah.

That phone has got to be there.

You're moving around.

Where, where, where, where,
where can you have it?

Shea Stewart: You can, you can buy
these pockets that you can put your

phone in that are, that shield.

And I think Tech Wellness has
them, but they're, they're

electromagnetic field shielders.

Like, if you Google, if you
Google that, those will come up.

Like Faraday.

If you put

Rupert Isaacson: tinfoil in
your pocket, would that help?

Shea Stewart: I don't, I don't know.

You could try it.

Those, they're called, they make
something called a Faraday bag.

Rupert Isaacson: You can actually

Shea Stewart: get a You know, net put
over your bed, but I wouldn't do that

because that's going to block out the
natural earth's natural rhythms as well.

But you can, you can buy little phone
holders that, that do protect you.

Cause even in the phone pamphlet, it
says not to hold them up to your ear.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Shea Stewart: That can cause, you know,
brain cancers and you're not supposed

to put them anywhere on your body.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

But it's very, very hard not to put
them in a pocket when you're riding,

when you're working, when you're.

So even if it's in a pocket, let's say
it's in a jacket pocket, separated by

three layers of material from your body.

I

Shea Stewart: would probably still either
put some block in there, put one of those

fabrics, silver, I think, blocks it.

Or buy something to put it
in that blocks all that.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Shea Stewart: Cause you don't want it.

You don't want that exposure on yourself
and transferring to your horse and

everybody rides with their cell phone.

I used to ride with mine and my riding
pants had a special little cell phone.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

Shea Stewart: but when my body started
falling apart, that's when I got

serious about making these changes.

And my brain, my body and my brain.

I, I got, I was afraid
I was getting dementia.

It was so bad.

I still get little bouts of it.

But a lot of things have changed.

Even my hair has grown back.

Rupert Isaacson: Have you, do you
feel that you're, that there's been

a big change in you in say the last?

24 months.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting
that you say that, Shay, because

I'm used to you speaking very
articulately but very slowly.

And I always just thought, oh, that's
because she's just very deep and

has a lot to say and you know, there
is, there is obviously that is true.

But it's, this is the first
conversation that I've had with you

that has been at a more natural pace.

It's interesting.

Shea Stewart: Interesting.

Yeah,

Rupert Isaacson: you're, you're,
you're faster than you were on our last

interaction, two interactions, I think.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

I mean, I, I get shy and get a little

Rupert Isaacson: Now I'm going to
make you close up because I said that.

Shea Stewart: I know.

I, I really, I seriously thought I was
developing and I probably was getting

some dementia and it, it coincided with.

A few things that brought me inside more.

I was on my computer more.

We had the stronger WiFi.

My circadian rhythm was messed up.

But even, even my hair, I was losing
a lot of hair and it's grown back.

Rupert Isaacson: Interesting.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And they say that's one
of the first signs of

improvement in your health is when
your hair starts to grow back.

Rupert Isaacson: Mitochondrial joy
expressing itself through the hair.

Yep.

All right.

Well, I think let's
wrap it up here for now.

I think that we've definitely drawn
people's attention to the importance

of mitochondria for humans and horses.

We've drawn people's attention to
why natural environments, as much

as possible, including lighting
and so on, are helpful in this.

We've gone a little bit too far.

down the rabbit hole of the
difficulties of our modern age with

5g Electronic devices everywhere but
things that we can do to mitigate this

and also the types of lighting and so on

I really would encourage listeners
go check out shay stewart.

We have all of her websites in that,
you know, it On the written bit,

but Shay, could you also just for
those readers who like to hear it?

Can you just tell us how they
can get in touch with you and

how they can consult with you?

Shea Stewart: Probably through my
website, which is equinebalance.

net and or my probably through there.

I don't go, I have a Facebook
page, equine balance.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Equine balance, equine balance.net

or the Facebook page, equine balance.

There's good shit on that Facebook page.

I've, I've read some amazing things.

What I didn't get to this time was
something in your last post, which is do

humans actually photosynthesize because Oh

Shea Stewart: yeah.

Yep.

We do.

Rupert Isaacson: Just quickly, it
sounds rather like we do with this light

thing as a, as the closing thought.

How, how do humans photosynthesize.

Shea Stewart: Well, we take light
and turn that light into energy.

So, that's how humans photosynthesize.

Rupert Isaacson: It's not something
you think about us doing, is it?

Shea Stewart: No.

You say

Rupert Isaacson: you're vegetating.

It's like, yes, yes, I'm busy
photosynthesizing over here, actually.

Shea Stewart: Yeah, and some of it
is through the melanin in our skin.

Absorbs frequencies of light and
then liberates that into electrons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's photo, that's photosynthesis.

Rupert Isaacson: Brilliant.

Just a shame.

That's, it's a shame that we're
not producing oxygen as we do it.

Wouldn't that be nice for the planet?

Or are we

Shea Stewart: We are our, our mitochondria
does, our mitochondria does a lot.

They're very,

Rupert Isaacson: are, are we,
are we shoving that oxygen

back out into the world?

Like a tree Does not

Shea Stewart: No.

Rupert Isaacson: No.

Sadly

Shea Stewart: no.

Sadly

Rupert Isaacson: for the trees, no.

But no, not for the trees.

'cause we're giving them carbon dioxide.

They love that.

Shea Stewart: Yeah.

And they, they need that.

Rupert Isaacson: They

Shea Stewart: need that.

Rupert Isaacson: I hope they're grateful.

It's been a treat.

Will you come on again?

Shea Stewart: I would love to.

People are interested in this stuff.

I could talk about it all day.

I know.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

And full disclosure, we just
share and I will likely be doing.

We did it last year, at least an online
series of little seminars together.

I'd love to do one physically, but
you're eight bazillion miles away.

And whenever I'm in Texas,
it's like zoom through.

It would be great to do maybe a
retreat at some point with no 5G.

Maybe we should talk about that.

Rebooting our mitochondria.

That would be a cool retreat, actually.

Maybe we should talk about that.

Okay.

Listen, as you heard it here, get
on the waiting list for our show.

Come and sort out your mitochondrias.

Well,

Shea Stewart: we'll reconnect to
nature and know why now we'll,

we'll actually know what it's
doing and why it's so important.

I think that's, that's my main
message is to get it out there.

Not only, you know, we say, oh,
we need to connect to nature,

but we, there's a reason, there's
a physical, biological reason.

Our physiology depends on it.

Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely, it does.

Absolutely, it does.

And so, yes, those of us in the
equine assisted field, we're

trying to help the physiology.

Because the psychology is, is
the physiology of others and

ourselves, mitochondria, nature.

Thank you.

Shea Stewart: Thank you.

Thank you for having me on.

And

Rupert Isaacson: you're just
the coolest person, Shay.

Shea Stewart: I

Rupert Isaacson: always find out
like 27 things I didn't know in

like a given minute with you.

It's, it's extraordinary.

I like to be made to feel dumb.

It's good.

It's healthy character building.

All right, then.

So till the next time.

Thank you again and hopefully speak soon.

Shea Stewart: Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, everybody.

Rupert Isaacson: thank you for joining us.

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